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USA v. Peterson, et al. - Transcripts of Tapes of Therapy Sessions

Private Health Care Systems Telephone Conference - Date: 2/17/1993

Certain patient names in this text have been changed by request.

Stalzer - Dr. Susan M. Stalzer

Seward - Dr. Richard E. Seward

Peterson - Dr. Judith A. Peterson

U/F: Unknown Female

UI: Unintelligible

1 Stalzer: Hello. This is Dr. Stalzer.
2 Seward: This is Dr. Seward.
3 Stalzer: Yes. Hi.
4 Seward: How are you?
5 Stalzer: Good. We'd like...
6 Seward: I would, I would like to, uh, have this be a conference
7   call...
8 Stalzer: Okay.
9 Seward:
10 Stalzer: We're on a recorded line.
11 Seward: Pardon?
12 Stalzer: We're on a recorded line. I'm just letting you know that.
13 Seward: That's fine.
14 Stalzer: Okay.
15 Seward: Ummm, um, what I'd like to do is have Dr. Peterson join
16   us...
17   Stalzer. Mm, hm.
18 Seward: ...since Dr. Peterson's been involved with the case from
19   the beginning.
20 Stalzer: Mm, hm. Who's Dr. Peterson?
21 Seward: She's the psychologist...
1 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
2 Seward:, who, to whom the patient was initially referred.
3 Stalzer: Mm, hm. Okay.
4 Seward: So, let me, uh, have, uh, uh, my program director, um, do
5   what she has to do to make this a conference call.
6 Stalzer: Okay.
7 Seward: Hold on.
8 U/F: Are you there?
9 Stalzer: I'm here.
10 U/F: Okay. What I'm going to do is give about 30 seconds to
11   get back to his office...
12 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
13 U/F: ...and then I'm going to put you on hold and, and get
14   into the conference mode.
15 Stalzer: Okay. (To someone else in room) (Inaudible) and Dr.
16   Peterson. (Inaudible).
17   U/F: Uh, Doctors, are you hooked?
18 Seward: I'm hooked.
19 Stalzer: I'm hooked.
20 U/F: Okay. I'm now going to put Dr. Peterson on the phone.
21 Stalzer: Okay.
22 Peterson: Hello.
23 Stalzer: Yes?
24 Seward: Yes.
25 Peterson: This is Dr. Peterson.
26 Stalzer: Okay. I think we're all together.
1 Peterson: Okay.
2 Stalzer: We have Paulette with me. We can't conference on my
3   phone, apparently, but she's kind of sitting in the room.
4   She's our ca...our case manager.
5 Peterson: Okay.
6 Stalzer: Okay? And, I think you know her. Okay. Well, okay.
7   This lady has multiple personality. She's been in a
8   supposedly acute care hospital for a year and a half, and
9   she's still the same. So, what I want to know is, you
10   know, what is the likelihood that she's going to improve.
11   What are you doing?
12 Seward: Well, let me, uh, first of all, um, correct that.
13   She's...
14 Stalzer: Okay.
15 Seward: ...not still the same. Uh, she's considerably improved.
16   And...
17 Stalzer: Really? 'Cause I have, uh, the chart, and from what I
18   saw she was in massive amounts of restraints on a, almost
19   a daily basis, and certainly weekly.
20 Seward: You must have an old section of the chart.
21 Stalzer: Hm.
22 Seward: Um, there's, but that's not, uh, an unlikely scenario at
23   any point along the way.
24 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
25 Seward: There's, the point is, is that she literally has, has
26   thousands of parts...
1 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
2 Seward: ...thousands of alters due to the extreme level of abuse
3   that she suffered.
4 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
5 Seward: And, um, I would even estimate at this point that we're
6   probably talking maybe as much as ten thousand parts.
7 Stalzer: She has ten thousand alters?
8 Seward: I would estimate.
9 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
10 Seward: And that's how severely fragmented she is.
11 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
12 Seward: And the reason I say she's considerably improved is that
13   we're very deep in that system. And what happens is, um,
14   every time we work with a level that brings us to another
15   level.
16 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
17 Seward: ...and such that the outward appearance is that she has
18   been improved, but the very fact that we're so extremely
19   deep in her system indicates that, in fact, she has...
20 Stalzer: I guess where we're concerned isn't that you get deep into
21   the alters but that you, in fact, improve her so that she
22   can function, you know, without being in restraints all
23   the time, you know, and frankly, from, from looking
24   through this, that doesn't look like that's happening.
25 Seward: Well, again, um, that, um, uh, is a problem I'd like to
26   correct. And we're not intending to treat her by getting
1   deep in her system, that's just simply where she takes
2   us.
3 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
4 Seward: And the point is is that she, uh, uh, has, uh, a cycle
5   where she improves and goes for a while without
6   restraints, and as, uh, that continues to improve, that
7   opens up another level where she becomes extremely
8   dangerous to herself. The bottom line is is that unless
9   we do this she will never be able to function...
10 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
11 Seward: .. and if we do this, uh, the anticipation is is that she
12   will reach a point where she will be able to function.
13 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
14 Peterson: The other issue is that, uh, the use of restraints is
15   something that's not considered something to avoid but
16   something to use very sparingly, very carefully for
17   specific pinpoint work that's considered important enough
18   to do within her system that it's really going to make a
19   difference.
20 Stalzer: Well, can you run that by me again? I'm not sure what
21   you're saying.
22 Peterson: Okay. That the, uh, the use of voluntary restraints, in
23   particular, is something that the patients on the unit
24   use very specifically for tracking things, certain
25   memories, that will make a difference for them in terms
26   of how they blend and integrate.
1 Stalzer: So, in other words, you're telling me you use restraints
2   for therapeutic reasons?
3 Seward: That's correct.
4 Peterson: We use them for safety reasons, to do a therapy session
5   that is considered to be too intense and too dangerous to
6   do without the use of restraints, and that's not an
7   uncommon practice. We're working with very profoundly
8   complex MPD's who are, uh, very, very, um, what we call
9   programmed in terms of, of automatic behavior, but...
10 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
11 Peterson: .. on this particular lady, where she'll go for her eyes,
12   pull out, pulls out whole chunks of her hair, uh, does
13   whatever, uh, was very automatic behavior for her.
14 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
15 Seward: And things that she would do on the outside unless we
16   were able to detoxify those memories.
17 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
18 Peterson: Yeah. The other thing, too, is that when she was
19   referred to me originally...
20 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
21 Peterson: ... she had been hospitalized for eleven months prior up
22   in, uh, uh, at Rush Northshore Hospital...
23 Stalzer: Mm, hm. Chicago. Mm, hm.
24 Peterson: ... and basically she was so dysfunctional at the time
25   that the psychologist, when she talked to me about the
1   case, said that she felt like she repeated the first
2   session...
3 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
4 Peterson: ...over and over and over again, spent the first eleven
5   months just in stabilizing and just in, uh, the basic...
6 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
7 Peterson: ...had very little memory or very little, uh, improvement
8   from session to session. When she first came to me, I'd
9   say the first six to eight months were like that, and
10   that at first she only remembered what I wore, then she
11   began to remember some contents of the (inaudible)...
12 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
13 Peterson: ...portion, and then finally began to be able to put the
14   content of one session and follow it through to the next
15   session and began to make progress and be able to plan
16   out what she was doing...
17 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
18 Peterson: ...and, so, in terms of where she is now, she's in a, in
19   a very different spot. She came to us so very severe,
20   though...
21 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
22 Peterson: ....that we have to look at where she was and she...
23 Stalzer: How old is she?
24 Peterson: Um I don't know. Forty-three. What do you say Dr.
25   Seward? I can't remember. I think she's forty-two.
26 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
1 Seward: know...
2 Stalzer: And somehow she managed to live for forty years without
3   pulling her eyes out, though...
4 Peterson: Well, (inaudible)...
5 Stalzer: ...through all this.
6 Peterson: ...that, which is very typical for post traumatic stress
7   is that there was a precipitating event. She's a school
8   teacher, and she had a very irate parent come in for a
9   parent conference...
10 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
11 Peterson: ...and slap her very hard across the face...
12 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
13 Peterson: ...and from that point on, uh, Barbara, the, all of the
14   abuse for Barbara opened up.
15 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
16 Peterson: And that was a real precipitant for her. Where some
17   folks it's a, a rape as an adult, for others it's a, a, a
18   birth of a child.
19 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
20 Peterson: For Barbara it was a slap.
21 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
22 Peterson: And that opened her up.
23 Stalzer: Right.. Well, I guess the...
24 Seward: That, to further answer your question...
25 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
1 Seward: ...uh, Dr. Stalzer, um, the, the very purpose of a person
2   developing Multiple Personality Disorder is just so they
3   can survive, uh, uh, without having to constantly do
4   those things, and, uh, basically what happened to her...
5 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
6 Seward: ...was that the fence was breached and now, and
7   (inaudible)...
8 Stalzer: Right. Right. I'm aware of the theory. Um, and I'm sure
9   you're aware of the controversy about all of this, too.
10   And I'm not even going to get...
11 Peterson: What controversy?
12 Stalzer: About Multiple Personality Disorder and cult abuse and
13   all of that sort of thing and what it really is. But,
14   but, anyway, I'm not even going to get into that because
15   the issue that really faces us, and I guess I'm going to
16   have to think about this a little bit, is, um, what's
17   acute care and what's not acute care, and it's hard to say
18   that someone who's been in an, you know, in an inpatient
19   setting for a year and a half is really getting acute
20   care, because what we're talking about with acute care is
21   really, you know, short term, thirty days, and in rare
22   cases maybe a little longer than that, but certainly not
23   beyond sixty. Um, you know, patch them up, get them out
24   and do the long-term work, you know, in another setting.
25   And clearly this is not that, that, this is not that.
26   You know...
1 Peterson: Right.
2 Stalzer: ...this is something else.
3 Seward: There is another, uh, why we keep them in acute care and
4   that's the, um, containment around them to immediately
5   prevent, um, damage to themselves caused by themselves.
6 Stalzer: Mm, hm. Right.
7 Seward: That, in fact, is what she is getting because she's
8   currently on a one-to-one.
9 Stalzer: Yeah. Yeah. Except that the problem is, you know, look
10   at it like, you know, rece...the way you would deal with
11   someone who is a chronic schizophrenic who is essentially
12   refractory to treatment and was doing similar kind of
13   things. Um, you know, once it became clear that there
14   really wasn't any reasonable expectation that the patient
15   was going to benefit and essentially needed long-term,
16   you know, supervised settings for their own protection,
17   then it, it's not again, the, the, the treatment is more
18   like a nursing kind of thing even though you're certainly
19   trying to, to get them better, but that the chances are
20   not very good.
21 Peterson: Doctor, but the point is that that is not the, uh,
22   conclusion that we've reached with Barbara, and we...
23 Stalzer: Mm, hm;
24 Peterson: ...never have, and, you know, we have cases that we have,
25   uh, certainly come to that conclusion and we have
26   discharged them to residential care...
1 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
2 Peterson: ...and we do that on a routine basis. Uh, in Barbara's
3   case, she has made an improvement. She is not like a
4   schizophrenic that is, is, uh, not able to make progress.
5   That's not correct at all.
E Stalzer: Mm, hm.
7 Peterson: And, uh, I think that referring you to Richard Kluft's
8   article on the different levels of hospitalization and
9   why people might need lengthier stays when they're
10   complex MPD's.
11 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
12 Peterson: Uh, the other thing is that in terms of what...
13 Stalzer: But how long are you talking here? You going to keep her
14   in there for several more years?
15 Peterson: No. Certainly not.
16 Stalzer: Well, wha...I'm just curious. What are you anticipating?
17 Peterson: Um, it's very hard to tell right now because what's
18   happening with her...are you aware of her family
19   circumstance?
20 Stalzer: Uh, vaguely. Her, she was planning to kill her son. Her
21   husband's trying to divorce her. That sort of thing.
22 Peterson: Well, the issue is that, whether you believe in, uh, cult
23   or not, that's not the point. The issue is that she's a
24   victim of organized crime, and her son is, too, and he
25   was hospitalized for a length of time, uh, up in Chicago,
26   and, um, the type of information that he revealed in his
1   therapy is consistent with the types of information that
2   she revealed in terms of pornography, in terms of child
3   prostitution, in terms, in terms of all kinds of, uh,
4   very, very, uh, awful stuff going on in the family...
5 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
6 Peterson: ...and, uh, she was much more stabilized but became
7   destabilized over the issues around divorcing and is now
8   in a, has been in a crisis since that occurred. It
9   started, uh, right after the first of the year...
10 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
11 Peterson: ...and is just beginning to, uh...
12 Seward: Reconstitute...
13 Peterson: ...yeah, really reconstitute and deal with that because,
14   for example, itís just been probably ten days or two weeks
15   ago that she obtained her own lawyer.
16 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
17 Peterson: And, so, we're looking at the real need for her to be
18   able to remain within, uh, the environment she's in and
19   knows well, uh, and actually go on working on her...
20 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
21 Peterson: ...uh, the issues at the same time dealing with an
22   additional crisis for her. Here she is already with her
23   Axis IV and V at low levels, and then she has a divorce
24   and never seeing her son again on top of that.
25 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
1 Peterson: And, and her husband has been coming down on a regular
2   basis for family therapy...
3 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
4 Peterson: .. and, so, this came, uh, really, as new information for
5   her, and it was a real blow as it would be for any
6   person.
7 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
8 Peterson: So, because she was really, uh, planning to reunite with
9   her husband.
10 Stalzer: Mm. Mm, hm.
11 Peterson: So, this is, this, um, the last time he came down, I
12   believe, was, uh, for Thanksgiving...
13 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
14 Peterson: ...and then he was going to come down in January, and,
15   uh, things fell apart with things, and her alters
16   (inaudible)...
17 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
18 Peterson: terms of sabotaging treatment...
19 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
20 Peterson: ...and he said, "That's it. I'm going to divorce you."
21   And she's been dealing with the aftermath of that.
22 Stalzer: Mm, hm. Given how seriously...I've never heard of anyone
23   who had ten thousand alters, but, uh, I'm not really big
24   into this field, but I'm just curious. obviously, that's
25   pretty severe. Have you consulted in, and, and I, I
1   mean, is a, is a year and a half stay typical in your
2   facility or atypical or...
3 Peterson: First of all, I think that on any given dissociative
4   disorder unit, and this is a specialty unit...
5 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
6 Peterson: ...there's going to be a couple of folks like that...
7 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
8 Peterson:
9 Stalzer: I'm just curious if you've consulted any outside
10   authorities on this case.
11 Peterson: I consult every week with, uh, Bobbie Sachs, in
12   particular, uh...
13 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
14 Peterson: ...who's a Ph.D. who's very, very well-known in the field.
15 Stalzer: Every week, so that, he must, he must have some...
16 Peterson: She.
17 Stalzer: ...kind of an affiliation, she, with your hospital?
18 Peterson: No. She's is...
19 Seward: She's in Chicago.
20 Peterson: ...She is in Chicago. And that...
21 Stalzer: Okay.
22 Peterson: ...I, uh, have, uh, peer supervision every week in regard
23   to my cases.
24 Seward: What you also need to know, Dr. Stalzer, is that Dr.
25   Peterson is a nationally-known expert who's
26 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
1 Seward: the top three or four knowledgeable people...
2 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
3 Seward: the matter.
4 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
S Seward: I mean, this isn't a primary care facility. This is more
6   like a (inaudible) care facility...
7 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
8 Seward: ...where, uh, we could...
9 Stalzer: Right. Right. Well, you know, I, of course, you know,
10   in this line of work I bump in to a lot of psy...various
11   people who specialize in this, and it's...
12 Peterson: You sure do, I'm sure.
13 Stalzer:'s been my impression that, that there are other
14   people in this field who deal with also very severe
15   people but who don't end up ever having people in this
16   long. Um, and I've seen cases of people equally as
17   severe, certainly on presentation actively suicidal.
18   Scratching themselves, you know, doing all kinds of stuff
19   on the unit, and, and, even in the worst of those cases
20   some of these people that I've dealt with get them out
21   usually within about thirty to forty days. So, this is,
22   this is pretty striking, from my standpoint, that this
23   has gone on so long. Um, and I know, you know, I'm not
24   an expert in it, but, like I said, I have spoken with
25   other experts who don't end up, seeming to me, this kind
26   of long-term in-patient.
1 Seward: But what you also need to know, for the record...
2 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
3 Seward: that, her reiteration, that Barbara is a very
4   treatable patient, and she, in fact, has come an
5   extremely long way, and she...
6 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
7 Seward: ...uh, at this point, is clearly not in the category
8   with, uh, chronic schizophrenic.
9 Stalzer: Well, it just doesn't come through in the charting
10   because, from what I've seen, and I, I actually asked a
11   question. We, we see notations for things like eleven-
12   point restraints. What exactly is eleven~point
13   restraints? Will you...five points is the most..
14 Seward: Barbara is so small that she's able to get her wrists...
15 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
16 Seward: ...out of the wrist restraints and attack her hair.
17 Stalzer: Okay.
18 Seward: So, we have added a forearm restraint that, uh, slows
19   down that so that the nurses have a chance, uh, to get to
20   her hands before she gets to her hair.
21 Stalzer: Okay. So that's another two. So that's seven. What are
22   the other ones?
23 Seward: (Inaudible) eleven...
24 Stalzer: Yeah. Yeah.
25 Seward: She, uh, has ankle restraints, thigh restraints, waist
26   restraint, chest restraint, uh, two wrist restraints, two
1   forearm restraints, um, and, uh a neck brace because she
2   bites her shoulder.
3 Peterson: And the reason, too, for all that is that she has a, uh,
4   very, uh..
5 Seward: Bad back.
6 Peterson: ...bad lower back.
7 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
8 Peterson: And unless she's restrained properly, uh, and four-point
9   restraints would not be proper for that lady with her
10   lower back problem...
11 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
12 Peterson: ...uh, we have to have her lower back very stabilized
13   and, uh, trying anything less, which a long time ago we
14   did, and if you look in the chart medically that she
15   often, uh, has back problems. But they're unrelated to,
16   uh, therapy sessions but related to activities on the
17   unit.
18 Stalzer: Okay.
19 Peterson: Um, and, so we have to be very, very careful with her to,
20   uh, she's been real cooperative about all of that.
21 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
22 Peterson: The other thing is that she has a history of an organic
23   problem, uh, and I'm not completely familiar with all
24   that, you know, when she was referred down here for what
25   they perceived, when they referred her from Rush
1   Northshore Hospital, she was referred from Bobbie Sachs
2   and Dr. Buddy Braun...
3 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
4 Peterson: ...uh, originally, and they thought that she would have
5   a length of time in treatment, several months, uh, they
6   treated her for eleven months themselves, thought she
7   wasn't an extreme case, needed very good care, and also
8   because of the organic difficulties would initially have
9   difficulty in organizing herself enough to be able to do
10   appropriate work, uh, that would allow her to be able to
11   blend and integrate. And, so, it took me quite some time
12   to get her to that spot. They were correct in that.
13 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
14 Peterson: So, uh, but now she is able to do the work and the
15   violence that was put in her, uh, is why the restraints
16   are needed. Not for any other reason. Uh, but when she,
17   when those parts are working, they may come out, she's
18   very much of a danger to herself...
19 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
20 Peterson: You know, she's a very tiny lady...
21 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
22 Peterson: ...very small lady.
23 Stalzer: These are during the hypnotic sessions you're talking
24   about (inaudible)...?
25 Peterson: No. I do not use hypnosis.
26 Seward: Remember that.
1 Stalzer: Oh, okay.
2 Peterson: We do not use hypnosis. Uh, there's no reason to. Uh,
3   and, in fact, I train therapists and I teach them not to.
4 Stalzer: Hm.
S Peterson: Uh, there is no purpose to, uh, using it except it to,
6   uh, help with the blending and integrating. Uh, whatever
7   she's working on is whatever she has come up with between
8   sessions which she journals on in terms of her memory
9   retrieval...
10 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
11 Peterson: ...uh, I do use hypnosis to help people to, uh, process
12   and heal...
13 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
14 Peterson: ...(Inaudible)
15 Stalzer: Okay.
16 Peterson: But I do not do, uh, memory retrieval through hypnosis at
17   all.
18 Stalzer: Okay.
19 Peterson: We don't do that on our unit.
20 Stalzer: Okay.
21 Peterson: That's the difference between our first (inaudible)...
22 Stalzer: Yeah. That's pretty much, everybody, I thought everybody
23   who did this treated these people with hypnosis, but,
24   obviously, that's wrong.
25 Peterson: No.
26 Stalzer: Okay.
1 Seward: Yeah. They're basically constantly in a state of trance
2   anyway, so we...(chuckles)
3 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
4 Seward: know, we don't need to add insult to injury.
S Stalzer: Okay. So, in other words, you, you take her into a
6   therapy session and she gets put in these restraints for
7   safety because of all the stuff that comes out during the
8   therapy session?
9 Seward: You bet. She plans them ahead of time...
10 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
11 Seward: ...and, and, in those cases. Now, we went through a
12   pe...what you also need to know is the State of Texas,
13   uh, um, uh, uh, very carefully, uh, studied this problem
14   here and has approved the approach.
15 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
16 Seward: Um, and for a period of time there was a hiatus with
17   voluntary restraints while they did their study.
18 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
19 Seward: Um, and, some of the chart reflects the fact that we were
20   unable to, uh, allow her to assist in the planning of a
21   controlled, contained session...
22 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
23 Seward: ...and, by planning for voluntary restraints ahead of
24   time...
25 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
26 Seward: ...but as a result, uh, there were...
1 Peterson: Involuntary.
2 Seward: ...involuntary restraints...
3 Peterson: Yeah.
4 Seward: ...because we were unable to contain them.
5 Stalzer: Mm, hm. So, for the most part, at this point, it's just
6   voluntary restraints?
7 Peterson: (Inaudible)
8 Stalzer: Okay. And that's been that way for about how long?
9 Peterson: Well, if you don't count the time when the State of
10   Texas...
11 Stalzer: Well, we won't count that.
12 Peterson: ...with what we did, it's been several months.
13 Stalzer: Okay.
14 Peterson: Mm, hm.
15 Stalzer: All right. I'm going to have to talk, think this, mull
16   this over a little bit and talk with, uh, Paulette.
17   Okay? And, uh, she'll get back to you...
18 Peterson: Let, let me give you a reference, too, if you want
19   someone to work with you. Uh, Dr. Richard Lowenstein,
20   who is, is the current past president of the National
21   Society for the Study of Multiple Personality Association
22   and is the Medical Director of Sheppard Pratt.
23 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
24 Peterson: Baltimore, Barbaraland...
25 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
26 Peterson: ...was just down here to review a similar case...
1 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
2 Peterson: ...uh, and spent a whole day on our unit, and that was a
3   very complex case, that in terms of complexity...
4 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
5 Peterson: a lot like this one...
6 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
7 Peterson: ...and in terms of telling you about his impression, uh,
8   if you'd like to do that feel free to.
9 Stalzer: Okay, well I don't...
10 Peterson: He's an insurance reviewer for an insurance company.
11 Stalzer: Right. I, actually, I, we have our own experts that we'd
12   like to call in, but Motorola apparently is not
13   interested in doing that. So, that would be a good idea.
14 Peterson: Okay.
15 Stalzer: But, uh, I don't know if that's going to happen.
16 Peterson: Well, anyway he's, uh...
17 Stalzer: Okay.
18 Peterson: ...he's been down here (inaudible)...
19 Stalzer: By the way, what is your, do you have a discharge plan?
20 Peterson: Uh, at this point we would be working on her moving into
21   an area, you know, across the street from here, very
22   close by, so that she could continue...
23 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
24 Peterson: PHP and then in out-patient therapy, uh, here in
25   Houston given the problem with her family. You know,
26   originally we had planned to return her to Chicago...
1 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
2 Peterson: ...go back into treatment, and given what's happened in
3   the last six weeks...
4 Stalzer: Mm, hm.
5 Peterson: ...all of that's...
6 Stalzer: Okay.
7 Peterson: ...changed completely. So we're in the process of even
8   getting Barbara to accept the fact that her husband really
9   is going to divorce her...
10 Stalzer: Right. Okay. I'm going to have to go because I've got
11   another one of these calls to make.
12 Peterson: All right.
13 Stalzer: All right? Thank you very much.
14 Peterson: You're welcome.
15 Stalzer: Bye-bye.

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