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USA v. Peterson, et al. - Transcripts of Tapes of Therapy Sessions


Tape #345, Side A - Date: 6/24/1992

Certain patient names in this text have been changed by request.

JP: Judith Peterson, Ph.D.

SD: Sylvia Davis

AB: Alice Brown

UF: Unknown Female

UI: Unintelligible


1   (First part of Side A is another patient, then session
2   starts with ALICE)
3 JP: All the way out.
4 AB: Nooooo.
5 JP: All the way out.
6 AB: Noooo.
7 JP: We've done the page. Back to the colors, sending them
8   out.
9 AB: Nooo.
10 JP: Two, three --
11 AB: Nooo --
12 JP: -- uh-huh, letting out the feelings.
13 AB: (whimpering)
14 JP: Letting them out.
15 AB: (whimpering)
16 JP: Three --
17 SD: Good. Good.
18 JP: -- letting them out --
19 AB: (whimpering)
20 SD: Good job.
     
    1
     
1 JP: Uh-huh, letting them out.
2 SD: Uh-huh. Good.
3 AB: (whimpering)
4 JP: All the way out.
5 SD: Good.
6 AB: (whimpering)
7 JP: Uh-huh. Four --
8 SD: Good.
9 AB: (whimpering)
10 JP: All the way out. Five, letting them out.
11 AB: (whimpering) Nooo --
12 JP: Letting them out.
13 SD: Good.
14 AB: Nooo.
15 JP: Letting them out.
16 AB: (whimpering)
17 JP: Six, letting them out.
18 AB: (whimpering)
19 JP: Seven, let them out the mouth.
20 AB: (whimpering/crying)
21 JP: All the way out. All the way out.
22 AB: Noooo. (louder whimpering)
23 JP: Uh-huh, all the way out.
24 AB: (louder whimpering)
     
    2
     
1 JP: Eight --
2 SD: Good. Good
3 AB: (loud whimpering)
4 JP: All the way out --
5 SD: Tell them no!
6 AB: (louder whimpering)
7 JP: All the way out.
8 SD: Yeah --
9 JP: Tell them, no!
10 SD: No!
11 JP: Can't hear you.
12 SD: Nooo --
13 JP: Can't hear you -- Nooo --
14 AB: Nooo. (loud whimpering)
15 SD: Nooo --
16 JP: Tell him, eight, tell him --
17 SD: Nooo --
18 AB: (loud whimpering/crying)
19 JP: Stay there. Tell him --
20 SD: Bad man, no --
21 JP: Tell him -- no -- tell him --
22 SD: No --
23 AB: (loud whimpering)
     
    3
     
1 JP: Tell him -- that's right, tell him. Everybody tell
2   him.
3 SD: No --
4 JP: Tell him --
5 AB: Noooo -- (whimpering)
6 JP: Say it.
7 SD: No -- no --
8 JP: Tell him --
9 AB: Nooo -- (whimpering)
10 SD: Voice coming back.
11 JP: Tell him --
12 SD: No!
13 JP: Tell him, that's right.
14 AB: (loud whimpering)
15 SD: No!
16 JP: (UI) -- tell him.
17 SD: NO!
18 JP: Scream at him, yeah, yell at him.
19 AB: Nooo!
20 SD: No!
21 JP: All the way out.
22 AB: No!
23 SD: No!
24 JP: All the way, all the way.
     
    4
     
1 AB: Noooo! (loud whimpering)
2 JP: All the way, all the way, all the way.
3 AB: Noo! (loud whimpering)
4 JP: That's right.
5 AB: Nooo! (whimpering)
6 JP: Tell him.
7 SD: No more. No, no.
8 AB: (whimpering)
9 JP: Tell him.
10 SD: No!
11 JP: Tell him. Come on. Come on.
12 AB: (whimpering)
13 SD: No!
14 JP: See who's got a big scream.
15 AB: No!
16 SD: No!
17 JP: (UI) scream all the way up the body.
18 AB: Nooo! (loud whimpering)
19 JP: All the way up the body.
20 AB: No!
21 JP: All the way up the body.
22 AB: No!
23 JP: All the way up the body.
24 AB: No!
     
    5
     
1 JP: All the way up the body.
2 AB: No!
3 SD: Come on.
4 AB: No!
5 SD: Good.
6 JP: All the way up the body.
7 AB: No!
8 SD: Good, louder.
9 AB: No!
10 JP: All the way out.
11 SD: All those voices coming back.
12 JP: All the way.
13 SD: All of those voices - -
14 AB: No! (screaming)
15 JP: That's right (UI) --
16 SD: Yes!
17 JP: And they're bigger.
18 SD: Yes!
19 JP: That's right.
20 AB: (loud whimpering)
21 JP: Bigger.
22 SD: Yes.
23 JP: Bigger. That's right, fight him.
24 AB: (loud whimpering)
     
    6
     
1 JP: That's right, tell him.
2 SD: Good.
3 JP: Tell him.
4 SD: Good.
5 JP: Tell him.
6 AB: (loud whimpering/crying)
7 JP: Let us have safe, that you can really let the sounds
8   out, not get hurt.
9 AB: Noo! (loud whimpering)
10 JP: Let them out. That's right.
11 SD: Bad man --
12 JP: Tell him.
13 SD: -- No!
14 JP: Tell him.
15 SD: No!
16 JP: Never again.
17 SD: No!
18 JP: Tell him never again.
19 SD: No more!
20 AB: No! No, No! (loud whimpering/crying)
21 SD: No more! No more!
22 JP: Tell him.
23 AB: No!
24 SD: No more!
     
    7
     
1 JP: No more.
2 SD: No!
3 JP: No.
4 AB: No. (whimpering)
5 SD: No.
6 AB: No! No!
7 SD: No.
8 AB: No.
9 SD: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. You need a little rest?
10 AB: No. (whimpering)
11 SD: Do you want to come out and have a little rest? And
12   then go back. You want to come out for a rest? Let's
13   see the toe tappers. Yeah, yeah. And have a little
14   rest and a break and you can see who's here. Doing a
15   good job. I have a sense that we need to clean some
16   drugs out of this. Maybe we could do that and a very
17   short time, just squeeze the drugs out of this
18   experience.
19 JP: Uh-huh. (UI). Huh?
20 AB: (UI)
21 JP: You trust me? (UI).
22 AB: No.
23 JP: Huh? I'm not gonna hurt you sweetie pie. No one else
24   is in here.
     
    8
     
1 AB: Please
2 JP: Can I put a sheet over you? Want to lie down? Okay.
3   I'll get a sheet, there's one right over there, I can
4   see one.
5 SD: There you go.
6 JP: (UI)
7 SD: Yes (UI) clean sheet.
8 JP: (UI)
9 SD: Doing a good job. Doing a good job. I'm right here,
10   just gonna put this over you since you asked for it.
11   We'll leave the toe tappers sticking out to talk and
12   let us know how you're doing. Right here, right here.
13 JP: I'm gonna put my hand on your head, is that alright?
14   Okay? Put my hand right here? Okay, and have
15   everybody together -- (tape skips) -- (UI) -- (tape
16   skips) -- All in it together.
17 SD: Uh-huh. Good.
18 JP: All in it together. All together.
19 SD: (UI)
20 JP: I know this is terrifying for you, and you need to hear
21   me, (UI) safe (UI) . -- (tape skips) -- Four, (UI) , and
22   five, (UI) all of it, all the way through the body.
23   (UI) everybody letting it out into my hand, and letting
24   it go away, four, into my hand --
     
    9
     
1 SD: Let it go right out of the hand, right on out there.
2 JP: Right into my hand.
4 JP: Pushing it out.
3 SD: Right on out --
5 SD: Oh, itís coming out from the toes.
6 JP: Up the body --
7 SD: And all of it.
8 JP: -- all the way out.
9 SD: Coming up --
10 JP: All the way up --
11 SD: Coming right up through --
12 JP: Three, all the way up into my hand, up in through your
13   head, all the way up --
14 AB: (whimpers)
15 SD: All the drugs --
17 SD: Squeeze it right out of your head.
16 JP: Uh-huh. Two --
18 JP: All the way out.
19 SD: There it goes.
20 JP: And one -- (UI) --
21 AB: (whimpers)
22 JP: Yeah.
23 SD: That's a big feeling. You found that (UI).
24 JP: Yeah.
     
    10
     
1 SD: Yeah (UI). You are doing good.
2 JP: (UI) I want to ask the toes if they're (UI) . Just talk
3   to me.
4 SD: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. (UI) feelings (UI) some more about
5   the animals.
6 JP: Uh-huh.
7 SD: Okay? And (UI) oh, that one too, yeah. Okay. Good.
8   Good. (tape skips) someone (UI) about the bad man
9   (UI). Know about both of those things. What would
10   happen when he would come to you and electroshock
11   Carol. No, it happened (UI). (tape skips)
12 JP: (UI)
13 SD: Yeah?
14 JP: Uh-huh. (UI). No? Could you do some more?
15 AB: (UI)
16 SD: (UI). About the drugs. (UI). (tape skips). Okay?
17 JP: To ten, putting it all together. I want to ask the
18   toes if you could put together, (UI). One, doing it
19   together. Two, doing it together. (tape skips)
20   (background noise) Four, (UI) all together. Five, (UI)
21   --
22 SD: (UI) about all of this --
23 JP: (UI)
24 SD: Uh-huh.
     
    11
     
1 JP: Five, letting it all come out.
2 SD: And the box below (UI) --
3 JP: (UI) -- letting the sounds out, letting the box open --
4 SD: Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
5 JP: Letting the sounds out. Seven, letting the sounds out
6   --
7 SD: Let -- let all the pain out, not just the (UI) --
8 AB: (whimpering)
9 SD: No!
10 JP: Letting it out.
11 SD: No!
12 AB: (whimpering)
13 SD: Ohhh!
14 JP: Letting it out.
15 AB: No!
16 SD: Ohh!
17 JP: Letting it out.
18 AB: No!
19 SD: No! Everybody voicing. Everybody. Yes.
20 AB: No!
21 SD: Good.
22 AB: No!
23 JP: All the way.
14 AB: No!
     
    12
     
1 JP: All the way.
2 SD: All the way.
3 AB: No! (loud whimpering)
4 SD: Good, good.
5 JP: All the way. Right --
6 AB: No! (loud whimpering)
7 SD: No! No!
8 JP: Tell him. (UI) all out.
9 SD: Big no.
10 AB: No! (loud whimpering)
11 SD: No! No!
12 JP: All the way -- letting the body out -- letting it feel.
13 AB: No!
14 SD: No!
15 JP: (UI)--
16 SD: Can move the legs and kick them a little if you need
17   to.
18 JP: Yeah, go ahead.
19 SD: Yeah. Let it out.
20 AB: (loud whimpering)
21 SD: The legs are not tied down. They're not fastened.
22 JP: That's right. Let them out.
23 SD: You can kick 'em.
24 JP: Kick.
     
    13
     
1 SD: Yes.
2 JP: That's right, kick.
4 JP: Nine -- Letting out the anger.
3 SD: Good. No!
5 AB: No! (loud crying)
6 SD: No!
7 AB: Noooo! (loud crying)
8 JP: Letting out the anger.
9 SD: No!
10 AB: No! (loud crying)
11 JP: Uh-huh.
12 SD: Kick. Freedom to kick. Yes. Good.
13 JP: Go ahead, kick.
14 SD: Good. No! No!
15 AB: Nooo! (loud crying)
17 AB: No! (loud crying)
16 SD: Letting it out.
18 SD: No!
19 JP: Letting it out. Ten --
20 SD: No!
21 JP: Letting it out.
22 SD: Good. No! No!
23 JP: Uh-huh.
24 SD: No! My body! No!
     
    14
     
1 AB: NO! (screaming)
2 SD: No! I don't want to do this. No!
3 AB: No! (screaming)
4 SD: No! No!
$ AB: No!
6 SD: No! (AB continues to cry out, "No!") No. No. No.
7 JP: Being able to let it go now. Nine, eight --
8 AB: No! (loud whimpering)
9 SD: Good. All the feeling --
10 JP: Seven --
11 AB: Noooo! Nooooo!
12 JP: Four -- uh-huh.
13 SD: Good.
14 JP: Letting time move forward.
15 SD: It's going forward (UI)
16 JP: That's right, all the way now. All the way. Five.
17   Letting it go. Four.
18 AB: Noooooo!
19 JP: Three.
20 AB: Nooo!
21 JP: Two.
22 AB: Nooo! (whimpering softly)
23 JP: And one.
     
    15
     
1 SD: Good. Letting all the rest out. And then resting.
2   And then resting. (AB stops crying) And you can open
3   your eyes and check it out. (UI) --(tape skips) -- the
4   body's still holding (UI) feelings aren't they? Yeah.
5   (UI) -- yeah. Doing a good job though.
6 JP: Uh-huh.
7 SD: Have to let you know that the feelings that get held
8   out --
9 UF: Get stuck.
10 SD: -- (UI) yeah, they're stuck. You need all of 'em out to
11   really get people out of this crystal.
12 JP: Were are parts that -- that really have the big
13   feelings? That'd be upset if they got left?
14 AB: I don't know.
15 JP: They got left with the feelings. You know, you guys
16   are the ones that get stuck. Like that?
17 SD: No. No.
18 JP: Do the feelings -- the big feelings to be attached to
19   the electricity?
20 SD: Unh-unh.
21 JP: Can you begin -- let yourselves begin to let it out?
22   Yeah. (tape skips) electricity (UI) . (tape skips) --
23   feel those feelings, are there parts that (UI)? (tape
24   skips) -- Did you know that bigger feelings you'll
     
    16
     
1   feel safer though? Okay? (tape skips) -- (UI) --
2   (tape skips) One, two, three
3 SD: Good, letting it out
4 JP: Let out the feelings, uh-huh
5 SD: Pushing it right on out --
6 JP: -- Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh -- letting out electricity --
7 SD: Pushing all that electricity out.
8 JP: Four --
9 SD: Pushing it out.
10 JP: Letting the whole body feel it.
11 AB: No. (whimpering)
12 JP: Uh-huh.
13 SD: Yeah, feeling all of it.
14 JP: Uh-huh.
15 SD: Feeling all of it.
16 JP: Five -- uh-huh -- uh-huh -- letting electricity out.
17 AB: (thrashing) (whimpering)
18 JP: Letting it feel -- be felt throughout the whole body.
19   The head, and the arms, and the legs --
20 AB: Noo.
21 JP: -- and the chest --
22 SD: And the jerking and the scare of it.
23 JP: Six -- Uh-huh -- uh-huh -- uh-huh.
24 AB: Noo.
     
    17
     
1 SD: The jerking and the scare.
2 JP: Uh-huh.
3 SD: And it's so big.
4 JP: Seven --
5 AB: Nooo! (screaming)
6 JP: -- letting it all out, letting all the electricity out.
7 AB: Nooooo! (screaming)
8 JP: All the way out. Letting the body (UI)
9 AB: (screaming/crying)
10 SD: Good, good, good.
11 AB: (screaming/crying)
12 JP: All the way. Uh-huh -- eight -- letting it --
13 SD: Letting out --
14 JP: -- letting it all the way out of the body.
15 SD: -- all of the body. Nobody in the body needs to keep
16   it. Let it out.
17 JP: That's right -- let it out.
18 AB: Noooo! (screaming/crying)
19 JP: Let it out. Let it out.
20 AB: Noooo! Nooooo! (crying)
21 JP: Nine -- you guys are holding it in.
22 SD: Uh-huh, good.
23 AB: Noo! (crying)
24 JP: Yeah you are. Yeah, somebody's --
     
    18
     
1 SD: Somebody's holding back the shocking.
2 JP: Uh-huh.
3 SD: I think they'll have to keep it. Let the feelings out.
4   Let the rest of the feelings out.
5 AB: (screaming) Noooo!
6 SD: Uh-huh.
7 AB: Noooo! (screaming)
8 SD: And the where is mother?
9 AB: Nooo! (screaming/crying)
10 SD: And the where is mother? Yeah.
11 AB: Noooo! (screaming)
12 SD: Uh-hmm. Uh-hum. Yeah, somebody's letting go of
13   electricity on the left a little bit.
14 JP: Uh-huh.
15 AB: Nooo! (screaming/thrashing)
16 JP: There's somebody blocking.
17 AB: Nooo.! (screaming/thrashing)
18 JP: There's somebody blocking.
19 AB: (screaming/thrashing)
20 SD: Hold onto me, so I can hold you. Hold on to me. Hold
21   on to us. And we'll stay with you hold onto me.
22 AB: (screaming)
23 JP: You need to begin to let out (UI) . (UI) all the way
24   out of the body feeling.
     
    19
     
1 AB: NOOO! (screaming)
2 JP: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. All the way out.
3 SD: All the scare of it.
4 AB: NOOO! (screaming)
5 JP: Begin to let it out with the (UI)
6 AB: NOOO! (screaming)
7 JP: And begin to let out what the wires do.
8 AB: NOOO! (screaming)
9 JP: Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.
10 AB: (loud whimpering)
11 JP: All the way out. All the way out. All the way out. I
12   want to ask the feet -- I want to ask the toes if you
13   feel safe enough --
14 SD: Asking the toes do you feel safe enough to let out the
15   electricity. (AB stops crying out)
16 JP: Do you need someone like Susan in here now to help? To
17   hold on so you can do your work?
18 SD: There's a no.
19 JP: Okay.
20 AB: I don't know.
21 JP: Hum?
22 SD: Yeah, rest. (tape skips) -- use your words (UI). Say
23   the words. Huh?
24 AB: Wire.
     
    20
     
1 SD: Wire? What about the wires?
2 AB: (UI)
3 SD: (UI)
4 JP: (tape skips) -- she doesn't have to do an abreaction.
5 SD: Yeah.
6 AB: (UI)
7 SD: (tape skips) -- to get everybody out of the crystal.
8   That's what she wanted. (tape skips).
9 SD: Yeah. (UI) promise to make to keep some secrets.
10 AB: No.
11 SD: Huh?
12 AB: No.
13 JP: With the toes?
14 SD: Toes, that's one. And (UI) the toes. I think that
15   Crystal's supposed to have some secret. Crystal you
16   need to be talking to us. Isn't there some jobs of the
17   crystal? Yeah. That haven't been told yet. (UI)
18   yeah, that's right.
19 JP: (UI)
20 SD: Yeah. (UI) may not quite able to tell the secret, so,
21   is to let that electricity out. What do you think
22   CRYSTAL? CRYSTAL? Talk to us. If you want to. You
23   know we don't care about the information. Just care
24   about getting you free.
     
    21
     
1 JP: I wonder if they think that if they feel the
2   electricity they'll feel it forever, cause all my
3   patients think that, Sylvia.
4 SD: Ah, um.
5 JP: (tape skips) --You need to know it's like the drugs,
6   what's happening when you take out the drugs? Huh?
7   Better? It will be the same with electricity. They
8   don't want you to know that, but that's a therapy
9   secret. (Laughs)
10 SD: Well --
11 UF: We have told her.
12 JP: Oh. Darn. Think it's safe with her, the secret?
13 SD: I don't know, will you tell anybody?
14 AB: (UI)
15 SD: What?
16 AB: (UI)
17 SD: You actually could.
18 JP: Yeah.
19 SD: You can tell. (tape skips) -- Just in case you get mad
20   at me.
21 JP: (UI) get in your way, huh? (tape skips) -- (UI).
22 AB: No.
23 JP: No?
24 SD: Let's check with the toes --
     
    22
     
1 AB: (U:)
2 SD: Yeah, I know but I really want to ask the toes and um,
3   one is you know about, up above the ankles, is if
4   there's any liars, (UI) up above the ankles (UI), okay?
5   And you can write me a letter. I love reading letters
6   (UI) theyíre just great.
7 JP: Can you tell all of us?
8 SD: Oh, they tell very good news, they tell very good news.
9 JP: Really?
10 SD: Uh-hmm, and they haven't written to me yet. (UI).
11 JP: (UI) Sylvia.
12 SD: Well, I wish they would. I'd really like that. Okay
13   and just to protect anybody who shouldn't know this
14   answer, well, hang on, what are you doing? What's
15   going on sweetie?
16 AB: (UI)
17 SD: Well, you're in this room. Come right now with SYLVIA.
18   Right now open your eyes. You don't just start off on
19   that stuff by yourself sweetie. Okay. Now keep your
20   eyes open and talk to me.
21 JP: Okay, I need to ask a question. I want to ask if there
22   are parts that protect the crystal that are gonna act
23   out?
24 AB: No.
     
    23
     
1 JP: That are supposed to do that. (tape skips) -- cause I
2   everyone I know has parts that protect the crystals,
3   Sylvia. (UI)
4 SD: Did you remember to make the feet go numb, so you
5   wouldn't feel them? You did that? Alright. Are they
6   numb right now? Yeah? So if I pinched them, you won't
7   feel it right? Is that right? So, feet, I'm asking
8   you, are you guys really numb, so you don't even feel
9   the toes moving? Good job.
10 JP: Again. I mean I wonder if you think that you couldn't
11   hang -- handle any of (UI).
12 SD: Ohhhh.
13 JP: That's what I got.
14 SD: Yeah, they said yes they thought they could.
15 JP: They don't know us very well. They don't know how
16   really nifty we are. (UI)
17 SD: Oh, look at that expression like --
18 JP: I don't know how to talk real good, you know, to
19   teenagers. But I wonder if those parts that get angry
20   that were made to be that way, (UI). Yeah? And I
21   wonder if they think we're strong enough to help them?
22 SD: No.
23 JP: (UI). (tape skips) --
     
    24
     
1 SD: -- (UI) -- write to me, and then fold the page over,
2   and it would be very private just between us.
3 JP: I wonder if it's safe for them to write.
4 SD: (UI)
5 JP: Can they come out today?
6 SD: Good.
7 JP: I want to ask again, (UI) to help us with that. By not
8   telling you can tell me -- not telling about contact
9   people's names, are you? We're talking about -- just
10   (UI). (tape skips) -- to help out? Think I saw yes,
11   but I --
12 SD: I saw a little bit of a nod I think.
13 JP: (UI)
14 SD: Cause the system really needs to keep us safe, too.
15 JP: Uh-huh. Is that a worry of yours? Okay. (UI).
16 SD: Okay.
17 JP: Can I do that?
18 SD: (UI) anybody --
19 JP: Okay.
20 SD: Good (UI). Doing good. This is the first time
21   "Gerber's" been allowed in this room.
22 AB: (UI).
23 SD: Did you know that?
24 AB: No.
     
    25
     
1 SD: Yes, it is. "Gerber's" first time in here.
2 AB: (UI)
3 SD: You're too, and you're being so brave and doing so well.
4   And I am so proud.
5 AB: (UI)
6 SD: Huh?
7 AB: (UI)
8 SD: Uh, yes. Alright, we'll have to check with the toe
9   tappers, but it really seemed to me like some more
10   folks inside got their voices back. And we'll have to
11   check --
12 AB: (UI)
13 SD: Real good, good and loud. And you have already done
14   very, very good work. Very good work (UI). She's not
15   a nurse. No, she's a therapist. We need a nurse for a
16   second. To help us out. Oh, no you didn't. No, she
17   did kinda hold it like this when she (UI). I'm
18   teasing, you did not break her hand. She was worried
19   and said she hoped she didn't break your hand.
20 JP: Oh, no, my hands still function. And if you could,
21   let's see, where do you want her?
22 AB: I don't know.
23 JP: You don't know?
24 SD: Well --
     
    26
     
1 JP: (tape skips) the bed?
2 SD: Right here?
3 JP: Can she sit on the edge of the bed there? It's
4   probably easiest. There. Is that alright? And then
5   if she needs to can she hold onto your ankle?
6 UF: I'm just (UI) jacket open.
7 UF: Want me to hold your ankle?
8 SD: Alright.
9 JP: You did some really good work.
10 SD: Some wonderful work.
11 JP: Uh-huh.
12 SD: I'm so proud of you.
13 JP: Alice still far away?
14 UF: (UI)
15 SD: And -- good.
16 JP: (tape skips) -- And have the anger (UI). (UI) that to
17   happen. (UI) I'm sorry.
18 UF: Do you want --
19 JP: Do we need to hold (UI) . (tape skips three times)
20 SD: Yeah.
21 JP: Uh-huh. Come all the way out.
22 SD: Uh-huh.
23 JP: Uh-huh.
24 SD: Uh-huh. Really pissed off too.
     
    27
     
1 JP: Uh-huh.
2 SD: Yeah. Come on out folks.
3 JP: Uh-huh.
4 SD: Good. Right on up out of the mouth.
5 JP: Uh-huh.
6 SD: Here you come.
7 JP: Come all the way out. All the way out.
8 SD: Did you guys just run off? I don't want any (UI) out
9   in place of the anger. Let's come on.
10 JP: Instead of --
11 SD: Let you guys -~
12 JP: -- the ones in front.
13 SD: Good job.
14 JP: Come on.
15 SD: Yeah. Good. Come on out sweetie. Right on up, all
16   the way out. All the way out and present.
17 JP: Come on.
18 SD: You're welcome in therapy.
19 JP: Uh-huh. Come on. Uh-huh. All the way out.
20 SD: All the way out. Open your eyes and look at us.
21 JP: Uh-huh.
22 SD: Might even growl if you need to. I don't know.
23 JP: Come on. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
24 SD: Uh-huh.
     
    28
     
1 JP: Cause we're messing things up inside, aren't we? Uh-
2   huh. Aren't we?
3 AB: (grunting)
4 SD: Making problems, yeah.
5 JP: Uh-huh.
6 SD: Yeah. Yeah. Come out and tell us about it. Come on.
7   You can say damn it if you have to. Come on.
8 JP: Come on. Come on.
9 SD: Come on.
10 JP: Come on.
11 AB: No. (grunting)
12 JP: Come on.
13 SD: Come on.
14 JP: All the way out.
15 SD: So you open the ears around the neck and around the
16   jaw.
17 JP: Come on.
18 SD: And the eyes. Come on. Open the eyes and speak.
19 AB: (growling sound)
20 JP: Okay. Come on.
21 SD: Come.
22 JP: Come on.
23 SD: Come on right.
24 JP: Come on.
     
    29
     
1 SD: Good. Good. Come on. Good.
2 JP: All the way out.
3 AB: No.
4 JP: All the way out.
5 SD: Oww.
6 JP: All the way out.
7 SD: Come on squeeze --
8 JP: I saw you out --
9 SD: -- all the way out.
10 JP: I saw you, come all the way out. Come on.
11 AB: No.
12 JP: Uh-huh. All the way out.
13 SD: People getting in the way of the jobs, huh?
14 JP: Uh-huh.
15 SD: People getting in the way of the jobs.
16 JP: Uh-huh. Come all the way out.
17 SD: Come on. Come on out and tell us.
18 JP: All the way out. All the way out.
19 SD: Bet they know to glare --
20 JP: Uh-huh. oh, yeah --
21 SD: -- bet they know. You got a good looking glare.
22 JP: Yeah.
23 SD: Come on glare-er. Let me see you.
24 AB: (thrashing)
     
    30
     
1 JP: Come on. Come on. Come on.
2 SD: Not mocking, really want --
4 SD: -- to see your anger. oh, alright. Alright.
3 JP: Come on. Come on.
5 JP: Come on.
6 SD: Thank you.
7 JP: Come on.
8 SD: Good job --
9 JP: On the growling. Come on. Come on. The ones that
10   have to protect. Who learned how to growl?
11 AB: (grunting)
12 JP: Come on.
13 SD: You need to hit me, wouldn't you?
14 JP: Come on.
15 SD: Uh-huh, I saw. You were thinking about it.
17 AB: Ow.
16 JP: Come on.
18 JP: Come on. Come on. All the way out.
19 AB: (growling sounds)
20 JP: Come on.
21 AB: (thrashing)
22 SD: Uh-huh.
23 AB: (thrashing/grunting)
24 JP: Uh-huh, uh-huh.
     
    31
     
1 SD: You got some words to go with that?
2 JP: Yeah, what are the words? What are the words?
3 SD: Let's have the words that go with it. Come on.
4 JP: What are the words?
5 SD: You want to tell us no and stuff. Hum? Got some
6   words?
7 JP: What are the words? What are the words?
8 SD: Didn't they let you talk, ever? No? Didn't let you
9   talk?
10 JP: What are the words?
11 SD: We'll let you talk.
12 JP: Go ahead.
13 SD: We'll let you talk.
14 JP: Go on. Go on.
15 SD: We'll let you talk.
17 AB: No. (growling sound)
16 JP: What are the words?
18 SD: Telling us no?
19 JP: Come on. Tell us. Uh-huh.
20 AB: (growling sounds)
21 SD: Like no talking. Except for you.
22 JP: Uh-huh. Come on.
23 SD: No talking ever, ever, ever, ever, ever. Especially
24   from you, except right now.
     
    32
     
1 JP: That's right. Come on.
2 SD: Good. Only on the bed.
3 JP: Come on.
4 SD: Only on the bed.
5 JP: That's right.
6 SD: Bat -- Only on the bed.
7   (hitting sounds)
B JP: Um-hum.
9 SD: Only on the bed.
10 JP: That's right.
11 SD: Good job.
12 JP: Uh-huh.
13 SD: Only on the bed. Only on the, want to hold my hand?
14 AB: (whimpering)
15 SD: Okay, no hitting, only holding.
16 JP: Um-hmm, um-hmm, um-hmm.
17 SD: Boy, you've been mad a long time.
18 JP: Um-hmm, um-hmm, um-hmm.
19 AB: (grunting)
20 SD: Yeah.
21 JP: Um-hum, um-hum, um-hum.
22 SD: Yeah. And there's no talking. Never, ever, ever,
23   ever, ever by you except at cult meeting.
24 JP: (UI)
     
    33
     
1 AB: Get off me.
2 JP: How old are you?
3 AB: (growling sounds)
4 SD: Do you know how old you are?
5 AB: Nope.
6 JP: Any idea?
7 AB: Nope.
8 SD: Would you like to have an age?
9 AB: Yes.
10 JP: What makes you think of that?
11 AB: I don't know.
12 SD: Uh-huh.
13 JP: Can you talk to anybody about all the (UI)?
14 AB: No.
15 JP: Uh-huh. Was that a job? (tape skips)
16 SD: (laughs)
17 AB: (laughs)
18 JP: (laughs) Gotcha didn't I?
19 AB: No.
20 SD: (laughs)
21 AB: (laughs)
22 JP: See, I've had people like you before. Uh-huh.
23 AB: (laughing)
24 JP: Uh-huh. What happened -- whoa --
     
    34
     
1 AB: (panting sounds)
2 JP: Bang the bed.
3 SD: Bang the bed, yeah. Yeah.
4   (hitting noises)
5 SD: Not that way, only the bed.
6 JP: Only the bed.
7 SD: Only the bed.
8 JP: No --
9 SD: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Want to bang with this hand for a
10   minute?
11 AB: No.
12 SD: No. Okay now, good.
13 JP: What happened if you didn't do your job (UI)?
14 AB: Bad.
15 JP: What's happening now? (UI).
16 AB: (UI)
17 JP: (tape skips) -- how does that feel? (tape skips)
18 AB: (growls)
19 JP: Uh-huh, and you can growl. And be a good angry person.
20   You just canít hit the therapist. You can hit the bed.
21   (hitting sounds)
22 JP: Yeah --
23 SD: Good.
24 JP: You can't hit yourself. That's right. Just the bed.
     
    35
     
1 SD: Just the bed.
2 JP: You gotta keep it under control.
3 SD: Good job.
4 JP: Cause you don't really want to hit people.
5 SD: Good job.
6 JP: That's right.
7   (faster hitting sounds)
8 AB: (heavy panting)
9 JP: No --
11 JP: -- that's alright.
10 SD: No --
12 SD: -- only on the bed. Only the bed.
13 SD: Want to use this hand for the bed too?
14 JP: Uh-huh.
15 SD: You can. I'll stay right here.
16 JP: I'm right here
17 SD: I'll touch you on the shoulder. You can slap that bed.
18   Pound it. (hitting sounds continue) Good, good, good.
19   Alright. You haven't liked your job very much have
20   you?
21 AB: (whimpering)
22 SD: Huh? Have you?
23 AB: No.
     
    36
     
1 SD: No, you haven't liked your job very much at all. No.
2   Nasty job huh?
3 AB: No.
4 SD: Is that right?
5 AB: Let go of me.
6 SD: Is that right? Is that right? Nasty job.
7 AB: Let me go.
8 JP: We -- we will hold you.
9 SD: Okay.
10 JP: If you want -- if you want to hurt yourself or us we
11   will hold you. So you have a choice.
12   (hitting sounds)
13 SD: What's -- you can pound with this hand a little bit
14   too. Yeah, right here.
15 JP: That's alright.
16 SD: Good, good.
17   (hitting sounds/grunting)
18 JP: How does that feel?
19 SD: Qh, boy. Yeah.
20 JP: (UI)
21   (hitting sounds)
22 AB: (grunting)
23 SD: It feels good I guess. Look at that.
24 JP: (UI) -- can you give it a kick?
     
    37
     
1 AB: No. (heavy breathing)
2 SD: We're still here. I keep my hand on your shoulders so
3   you know you can find me real quickly. Good job.
4 JP: I want to know if there is others inside, yeah, I know
5   lots of others -- others inside.
6 AB: (crying)
7 JP: Who still haven't heard about the remembering. (UI).
8   Huh? Yeah, can they all come out together? Huh? Can
9   they all see what happened with you? Are you the one
10   that experimented? Brave enough to come out first.
11   Yeah.
12 SD: I'm right here.
13 JP: Huh?
14 AB: I did.
15 SD: Hot. Sweaty.
16 JP: (tape skips) -- doing the job. Huh?
17 UF: She's hot. She might be more comfortable.
18 SD: Would you like the sheet on?
19 UF: You want it on? okay.
20 AB: (UI)
21 JP: (UI)
22 SD: You can notice that you have clothes on though, under
23   the sheet. Yeah you do. Look. Feel them.
24 JP: Look. Look and see 'em.
     
    38
     
1 SD: (UI) has clothing. Feel it, on the top?
2 JP: Uh-huh. White T-shirt.
3 SD: White T-shirt, with pretty flowers.
4 AB: (UI)
5 SD: Yeah, feel it. And can you feel your um, shorts on
6   your legs?
7 AB: Pink shorts.
8 SD: Yes, you have clothing on. You have total dignity in
9   this room.
10 JP: Uh-huh.
ii SD: Yeah.
12 JP: You even have on really fancy socks.
13 SD: Want me -- (laughs).
14 JP: Well, they're not fancy. I was just checking to see if
15   you were gonna check.
16 SD: (laughing)
17 AB: (growls)
18 JP: (laughs)
19 SD: (laughs)
20 JP: Oh, guys like you are just my speed. oh, yeah.
21 AB: (Ul)
22 SD: You're great. You're just great. You're just great.
23 JP: You're gonna be able to help ALICE be brave.
24 SD: Uh-huh. And you have been so needed.
     
    39
     
1 JP: Lots of strength.
2 SD: You've been so needed.
3 JP: Lots of scared ones inside, that need your strength.
4 SD: Uh-huh.
5 JP: Need your strength. Where you going? You gonna -- oh,
6   you're just playing a game with my hand?
7 AB: (laughs)
8 JP: Yeah?
9 SD: You didn't get much -- much playing while you had that
10   job, did you?
11   (hitting sounds)
12 SD: No.
13 AB: (UI)
14 JP: No, no, no, no, no --
15 SD: I'm right here, I'm right here.
16 JP: Hold but don't hit.
17 SD: I'm right here. I'm gonna keep my hand here so you'll
18   know that I am here.
19 JP: You know what? You have a good scowl.
20 SD: It's (UI)
21 AB: (laughs)
22 JP: I think I have a special job --
23 SD: Those hands --
24 JP: -- for all of you --
     
    40
     
1 SD: -- checking out those hands.
2 JP: Uh-huh.
3 SD: Did you ever see them before? Like peaking up like
4   that?
5 AB: Unh-unh.
6 SD: Huh?
7 AB: (growling sound)
8 SD: Did you ever?
9 AB: I don't know.
10 SD: I'm asking the toes. No?
11 JP: Ahhhh --
12 SD: Never saw your own hands.
13 JP: Did you ever see your pretty hair?
14 AB: No.
15 SD: Would you want to?
16 AB: No.
17 JP: You have pretty blonde hair.
18 AB: No.
19 SD: Don't want to see it?
20 JP: Okay.
21 SD: Alright.
22 JP: Are there parts inside that are mad that people are
23   figuring these things out?
24 AB: (growling sound)
     
    41
     
1 JP: (UI)
2 AB: Yeah.
3 JP: Yeah.
4 AB: (growling sounds)
5 JP: Other parts underneath that are angrier than this part?
6 AB: Yeah.
7 JP: Yeah.
8 AB: (grunting sounds)
9 JP: Okay. Does everybody know we're gonna keep you safe?
10 SD: And keep all -- some folks are glad though to be out,
11   that are angry, aren't you? Aren't some of the angry
12   ones a little bit glad to be out?
13 JP: Uh-huh.
14 SD: Yeah.
15 AB: (crying)
16 JP: Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
17 SD: Well, what (UI)
18 AB: (UI)
19 SD: Take a look. You have eyes. You know that? Take a
20   look. Take a look. Take a look. Isn't that
21   interesting. Isn't that interesting. Uh-huh.
22 JP: Oh, you guys like me.
23 SD: I bet you guys have never gotten to hold a pencil, have
24   you? Am I right? Huh?
     
    42
     
1 AB: Unh-unh.
2 SD: No?
3 JP: No --
4 SD: You have (UI) to hold the pencil?
5 AB: No.
6 SD: Do you know how to -- no -- no --
7   (hitting sounds)
8 JP: I think they really young.
9 SD: Huh?
10 JP: Young.
11 SD: Pretty young. Pretty young.
12 AB: (growling sounds)
13 JP: Are there older ones inside that are angry? Hum?
14 SD: Yeah. Okay.
15 JP: We need to (UI) know which way to go, whether you want
16   (UI)
17 SD: (UI). Are you asking --? That's up to you. I'm here
18   (UI).
19 JP: (UI). (tape skips) -- be better to let them have this
20   small (UI) and journal about it.
21 AB: (UI)
22 JP: Uh-huh.
23 SD: You guys did so good.
24 JP: (UI)
     
    43
     
1 SD: Are there some folks inside that want to clap and
2   applaud, I wonder? No.
3 JP: Does everybody know how to foot clap?
4 SD: You don't?
5 AB: (UI)
6 SD: Oh. Limited folk.
7 JP: Really. (laughs)
8 SD: (laughs) But smart and quick to learn. Right? Smart
9   and quick to learn. Right? Huh?
10 AB: (UI)
11 JP: Had to be, to survive.
12 SD: Had to be very smart.
13   (hitting sounds)
14 SD: Only the bed. Only, only on the bed.
15 JP: Yeah.
16 SD: Cause therapists aren't gonna hurt you.
17 JP: Unh-unh.
18 SD: Are you a little sweaty? Want me to wipe your
19   forehead?
20 AB: No.
21 JP: I wonder if there are parts inside now that know a
22   place for this part to be to have fun inside and maybe
23   have a punching bag.
24 AB: Yeah.
     
    44
     
1 JP: Uh-huh.
2 SD: (UI) is there somebody who could help create that for
3   this part?
4 AB: (UI).
5 SD: Is there somebody inside? Hello down there. That can
6   come and help this part have a safe room with a
7   punching bag. Good. And crayons and note paper to
8   make lots of -- and fill up lots of -- lots of angering
9   in writing. In color. Good. Good.
10 JP: And if you'd be willing to go inside now and go to that
11   special place? No? Can parts take this one inside?
12 AB: I don't know.
13 SD: We need for some responsible parts to come out and take
14   this young angry one inside and take care of him and
15   let them have their angry room. And I will certainly
16   be calling this one back out in therapy. They will --
17   this one will get more chances. Can somebody take
18   responsibility? Or two or three of you take this one
19   and give him a safe spot. Uh-huh. No. And I will
20   invite you back out in therapy. We're gonna a good
21   (UI)
22 JP: And I'll have to come back (UI)
23 SD: Absolutely. And toe tappers can let us know when this
24   one is safely back.
     
    45
     
1 JP: (UI)
2 SD: Oh, has to leave it.
3 JP: Yeah. Another time.
4 SD: You'll get to see her another time.
5 JP: Uh-huh.
6 SD: (UI). Good, good job.
7 JP: Okay, can everyone all the way down now -- begin (UI) -
8   - be listening -- begin to let the parts that need
9   protection to be protected -- that you've all done
10   really good work. And you can all feel the feeling of
11   how human it is to let out the feelings, that you've
12   done today. And that you learned something new. That
13   you can feel the feelings about a memory. Yeah. And
14   it goes away. Cause the body feeling -- safe and not
15   hurt -- and the memories about what happened to the
16   body all (UI). (tape skips) -- okay, yeah. (UI)
17   something --
18 SD: So they need to be put away again.
19 JP: Put all that away (UI) --
20 SD: (UI) -- needs your help (UI)
21 JP: Uh-huh.
22 SD: And notice that there's lots less in the box now.
23 JP: You can all be let out of spaces where the hurt was
24   (UI). (UI) wonderful (UI). And know that you never
     
    46
     
1   have to feel (tape skips) -- fill up all the places
2   (tape skips) -- gonna make a liar's page -- of all the
3   things the folks told you (tape skips) -- you're not
4   suppose[d] to be able to deal with (UI) memories. (tape
5   skips) -- you want to sit on the bean bag? (tape
6   skips) -- find a new friend? Uh-huh. Oh, isn't that
7   who it is? (UI) names. Huh?
8 AB: Yeah.
9 JP: I like you too. (tape skips) -- I'm wondering if the
10   body's safe now? No? I'm wondering if anything's been
11   triggered by what we've done today?
12 SD: Is anybody at all inside feel the need to hurt the body
13   in any way or hurt anybody inside the body?
14 JP: (tape skips) -- are parts inside that can control that
15   by telling nurse -- (tape skips) -- right away to
16   someone and say "I don't feel safe?" (tape skips) -- is
17   ALICE gonna know what we did today? No? Well, someday
18   she will when she's ready.
19 SD: (UI)
20 JP: Uh-huh. Does she need to come back again? (tape
21   skips) -- you forgotten to ask any questions about
22   safety.
23 SD: (tape skips) -- feeling back again. It's kindahard to
24   walk down the hall if you can't feel you feet. (tape
     
    47
     
1   skips) -- gonna (UI). And that the toes can go on and
2   get used to feeling again. (UI) feet how do you feel?
3   That's it. That's it. Boy -- Are you okay (UI)?
4 JP: (UI)
5 SD: (UI)
6 JP: (UI)
7 SD: (laughs) ALICE, take your hand off please.
8 JP: Oh, hi!
9 AB: (laughs) Hi.
10 SD: (UI)
11 AB: Why did she (UI) away?
12 SD: She left earlier.
13 JP: Did you enjoy the pizza?
14 AB: Pizza?
15 SD: It's a joke.
16 AB: Oh. (laughs)
17 JP: (laughs)
18 SD: (laughs)
19 AB: Your ring --
20 JP: Yeah, what about my ring?
21 AB: Somebody wanted it.
22 JP: Somebody wanted it, yes. What's that about?
23 AB: (laughs)
24 JP: You did a really good job.
     
    48
     
1 AB: I did?
2 JP: You did. And everybody's alive, and well. You ready
3   to go off and play?
4   (END OF TAPE)
     
    49
     

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