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USA v. Peterson, et al. - Transcripts of Tapes of Therapy Sessions


Tape #80, Side A & B - Date: 6/19/1992

Certain patient names in this text have been changed by request.

PETERSON: Judith Peterson, Ph.D.

BWHITE: Barbara White

DWHITE: Dick White

SEWARD: Richard Seward, M.D.

DAVIS: Sylvia Davis

RUSSELL: Joan Russell, R.N.

UI: Unintelligible

UF: Unidentified Female

UM: Unidentified Male


1   (Beginning of Side A)
2 BWHITE: Well, I’m beginning to, I guess I’m going to begin
3   by saying that, um, I had a lot of time last night
4   working out my parts of me who are (UI) and
5   wanting to hurt myself and, um, there’s a part
6   that I am aware of still, there’s, that wants to
7   hurt people, wants to hurt (UI) or GEORGE. Um, the
8   behavior, um, the automatic behavior may still be
9   there but, um, (UI) there are a lot of automatic
10   behaviors. We can, we can work with that to get
11   rid of it. And there’s too many people in my
12   system who liked the policy of the cult, to let
13   one or two people rule, um, well this is still so,
14   we’re not, we’re not going back to the cult.
15   Whatever, independent of what you decide for GEORGE
16   and you, um, I won’t go back to the cult. And I
17   would never (UI) or your safety.
18 PETERSON: What’s happening right now?
     
    1
     
1 BWHITE: Just those parts that were so hateful are um, in
2   touch with the hurt and the destruction that, um,
3   they caused and how we can’t, we can’t, we can’t
4   go back and we get any different, we’ll never be
5   able to do that. (crying) All I can do is make
6   sure that the picture, that our behavior in the
7   picture doesn’t cause any more pain for DICK and
8   GEORGE and whatever, whatever safety plan we need to
9   come up with to ensure their safety, um, we’re all
10   willing to go, go with.
11 PETERSON: The parts that are the ones that know about what
12   safety would really be like. So is our parts that
13   are below the automatic behavior, that we saw
14   yesterday. I’m wondering about, is if those
15   leaders would be able to be here. Who am I
16   talking to?
17 BWHITE: I guess, um, I would have to be like, the master
18   plan, or master program for my system. And I, I
19   think in terms of my mother when I think of the
20   master program. Part of me who thinks that I
21   could get enough control and enough power, doesn’t
22   matter who I stepped on or who I hurt in the
23   process. It was just me and I could just keep
     
    2
     
1   looking my way up, up, or using, using the people
2   of my life. I would be some things, somebody else
3   in the cult that was not the promise that they
4   made. (crying) But of course, I never was
5   intended for that use. And that gets all the
6   lying, truth and I hurt DICK and GEORGE.
7 PETERSON: Where are the parts that are in charge of the
8   automatic behavior?
9   (Pause)
10 PETERSON: Cause I’d like to ask all the way down and all
11   the way down to all the systems. Where’s the
12   automatic behavior? I don’t know how to go down
13   past the behaviors (tape skips) want to talk to
14   the one in charge of all of it. What you
15   practiced over and over again, in the cult. And
16   this has to do with considering whether or not
17   you’d like to make choices in your life. I think
18   you all know by now that I will know. (Tape
19   skips) ... always times and the other parts of you
20   can do the things that made you literally stop...
21   (tape skips).
22 BWHITE: I don’t wanna be troubled by automatic behavior.
     
    3
     
1 PETERSON: And I don’t know whether the automatic behavior is
2   something so powerful down deep that you need some
3   help with it, cause I (tape skips)...use
4   restraints.
5 BWHITE: We don’t wanna be controlled by the cult any,
6   anymore. And we wanna, I wanna be able to say
7   there is no, I can control the automatic behavior.
8 PETERSON: Well, just...
9 BWHITE: But I can’t.
10 PETERSON: Okay. And what you need to hear is that you’ve
11   just gotten into something new for you and I don’t
12   expect you to have control over it in one day.
13   You could figure that out and then we could bottle
14   it, we could make (UI). Okay? What I do need
15   today is for you to tell me what you need about
16   safety so that we then can talk to the leaders
17   down deep.
18 BWHITE: I think it would be best in case they keep, I
19   don’t wanna hurt anybody. I think it’s best to be
20   in restraints. (Crying) I wanna make sure that
21   I, I...
22 PETERSON: Can I ask the fingers? Just want to ask the
23   leaders down deep if that’s what they need because
     
    4
     
1   you have different choices. And (UI) was using
2   the nets for control. So do you need the
3   restraints?
4 BWHITE: (Tape skips) ... are nothing.
5 PETERSON: Okay. Better I, should I call.
6 SEWARD: They’ll need to bring the release too.
7 PETERSON: Hi, this is Dr. PETERSON. We need BARBARA in
8   restraints.
9 SEWARD: Release. Need a release too. Need a release.
10 PETERSON: I’m sorry. Need a what?
11 SEWARD: Release.
12 PETERSON: For?
13 SEWARD: She hasn’t signed a release, has she?
14 PETERSON: Yeah, GLORIA, would you send the nurses down with
15   a release also, for voluntary restraints. Um hum.
16   Um hum. JOAN, we need a, a release.
17 RUSSELL: Okay, I’ll stop.. okay.
18 PETERSON: And we need restraints. Where are they?
19 RUSSELL: Um, in here.
20 PETERSON: Okay.
21 UF: Do you want me to (UI)?
22 PETERSON: Yeah, I think you’re dressed real sweaty.
23 RUSSELL: Okay.
     
    5
     
1 PETERSON: Can you go do that real quickly? Unless you need
2   someone to go with you.
3 BWHITE: Okay.
4 PETERSON: Can I call someone to come help her change into...
5 UN: Sure.
6 PETERSON: (UI)...
7 UN: (UI)...
8 PETERSON: MARILYN, can you help, um, BARBARA, number one,
9   change into the blues real quickly and number two,
10   sign a release? (UI).
11   RUSSELL: (UI)...
12 SEWARD: Up to.
13 RUSSELL: Up to.
14 SEWARD: Um hmmm. Well, given what I’ve read about uh,
15   yesterday, she probably isn’t gonna need 9 points
16   because she needs to ...(UI)...she (UI) needs the
17   neck collar.
18 PETERSON: Um hum.
19 RUSSELL: Okay.
20 DAVIS: Well, she did a lot of this kinda stuff....(UI).
21   Does anybody want any ice water or something?
22 DWHITE: Please. I’d go for some ice, or coffee.
23 DAVIS: Coffee? You got it?
     
    6
     
1 DWHITE: Yes, please.
2 DAVIS: What do you take in it?
3 DWHITE: Uh, just black.
4 DAVIS: Black?
5 SEWARD: Somebody needs to do that, you know. We’ll have
6   to introduce her to chicory coffee.
7 DAVIS: That’s a little (UI).
8 SEWARD: It’s wonderful.
9 DAVIS: Is it?
10 DWHITE: So what did BOBBIE have to say last night?
11 PETERSON: Oh, a lot.
12 DWHITE: Did she?
13 PETERSON: She was real, real pleased. Um, she was
14   particularly pleased that you were having physical
15   feelings and I didn’t realize how new that was for
16   you. And that was something that I think...
17 DWHITE: Oh, the, um, the electric shock?
18 PETERSON: No, down your legs, especially.
19 DWHITE: Oh, okay.
20 PETERSON: Isn’t that new?
21 DWHITE: Yeah. Um, his hands have been moving for about
22   three months now.
23 PETERSON: Um hmmm.
     
    7
     
1 DWHITE: So BOBBIE will talk to me and the hands will move.
2   And when BARBARA just now said something, I forgot
3   what she said, but she did this and I did it at
4   the same time. Uh...
5 PETERSON: The thing that she had shared with me was that if
6   you got more in touch with the shock feeling, what
7   I did yesterday was I hypnotically took it away.
8 DWHITE: Um hmmm.
9 PETERSON: What would actually needs to happen is to
10   hypnotically have it come all the way out.
11 DWHITE: Yeah.
12 PETERSON: And that she’s been waiting for that to be here
13   and...
14 SEWARD: May I intervene? That may be a real clinical
15   problem since he is not an inpatient.
16 PETERSON: Um hmmm.
17 DWHITE: That’s what I’m afraid of. How contained I can
18   keep this whole thing.
19 PETERSON: Um hmmm.
20 DWHITE: I’m sure that’s, it’t been a concern of BOBBIE’s
21   probably since the beginning.
     
    8
     
1 PETERSON: I’m talking about, uh, the physical feeling
2   itself. Not anything else. That’s, that’s new
3   for him just to even feel that.
4 SEWARD: Uh, I’d just be real concerned about conducting a
5   treatment.
6 PETERSON: Um hmmm.
7 SEWARD: On campus.
8 PETERSON: Um hmmm. Okay. What I did yesterday, or
9   frequently used safely, was some individual work
10   so we could do that on, that again today to.
11   So...
12 DWHITE: I did the same thing this morning that you and I
13   did last night. I do it every morning.
14 PETERSON: That’s what BOBBIE said, was it what I...
15 DWHITE: And it really gets me centered and grounded.
16 PETERSON: Um hmmm.
17 DWHITE: And I need, if I’m having a rough day I’ll do it
18   again.
19 PETERSON: Um hmmm. I think keeping track of where you are
20   and what your feeling is, is real important.
21 DWHITE: Um hmmm.
22 BWHITE: (UI)...I need a kleenex because my neck...(UI)...
23 PETERSON: Let me see if I can...
     
    9
     
1 BWHITE: (UI) scared.
2 PETERSON: You scared? What you scared about? Let’s put
3   this behind you.
4 BWHITE: (crying) (UI)...step aside and let the parts work
5   that need to work.
6 SEWARD: Is that centered okay for you? She...
7 PETERSON: (UI)
8 SEWARD: Her back supported?
9 PETERSON: (UI)... this way, okay. Feel better?
10 BWHITE: No. (crying) I’m gonna do it today.
11 PETERSON: Umm. Do we have individual cuffs?
12 RUSSELL: Yeah.
13 PETERSON: (UI). Okay.
14 BWHITE: (Crying)
15 PETERSON: Along the memory, when I talked to BOBBIE last
16   night, (UI) and I had promised her that I would
17   present a copy of, of (UI). She had seen it on a
18   video tape of a patient and it is very jealous and
19   she wanted to order this, and I wondered if
20   nursing could maybe copy... (UI).
21 RUSSELL: Okay.
22 PETERSON: Okay?
     
    10
     
1 BWHITE: (Crying) They don’t use restraints on George do
2   they?
3 DWHITE: Um, no. They, uh, he’s gonna, uh, he asked to go
4   in the quiet room. Um...
5 PETERSON: They call it the Freedom Room?
6 DWHITE: Freedom Room. The other day they decided if he
7   didn’t stop what he was doing he would go in
8   restraints and he stopped. So he’s got the
9   choice. He always has the choice of going in.
10   He’s never gone in.
11 BWHITE: I think that would be real scary for him.
12 DWHITE: Well, you’ve seen the parts inside. They may need
1   to go into restraints to do the work they have to
14   do. Just like you do, I mean, I’ve seen the parts
15   inside and it’s not GEORGE that we’d be dealing with
16   if he ever went into restraints.
17 PETERSON: The cult put him in restraints.
18 DWHITE: So those parts may only know how to do their
19   therapy in restraints.
20 PETERSON: Um hum. (UI)...in that bottom drawer...
21 RUSSELL: Okay.
22 PETERSON: (UI)
23 SEWARD: (UI)
     
    11
     
1 DAVIS: I’m gonna (UI) anything to help the hands to
2   keep...
3 UF: JOHN is, JOHN’s coming down.
4 RUSSELL: Okay. Yeah. If you want to do the rest, I’ll do
5   this.
6 DAVIS: Are there a couple more wash cloths in there?
7 SEWARD: There are some washcloths in the bottom.
8 DAVIS: Is there? (UT). These are for her to clench.
9   (UI)
10 RUSSELL: Okay. Okay. Great. One for her to hold too.
11 DAVIS: (UI)
12 BWHITE: Oh God.
13 PETERSON: What’s happening?
14 RUSSELL: Oh okay, sorry.
15 PETERSON: Can...(UI)...parts (UI) come out? You ready? You
16   need the cuffs, the wrist cuffs on now?
17 BWHITE: No.
18 PETERSON: Hmmm? Cause that’s okay, ask.
19 BWHITE: Well, I want, I wanna be able to wait, I wanna be
20   able to show the cult parts that I can stay in
21   control.
22 PETERSON: Um hmmm.
     
    12
     
1 UF: (UI)
2 SEWARD: (UI)
3 BWHITE: (Crying and heaving)
4 SEWARD: (UI)
5 PETERSON: Well, rather than having to worry about stepping
6   aside, they’re coming out. Is that what’s
7   happening?
8 BWHITE: (Heaving) They’re tired...
9 PETERSON: Hmmm?
10 BWHITE: (Crying) They’re tired of being in restraints.
11 PETERSON: Is that what’s happening? Um hmmm. Well have you
12   said being in restraints needs to happen?
13 BWHITE: Yes.
14 PETERSON: Yeah. Are they angry about it?
15 BWHITE: (Crying) Because...
16 PETERSON: Hm hmmm. Did that mean, maybe even..um hum.
17 BWHITE: (Crying and heaving)
18 PETERSON: Did that maybe mean that, mean some, that there
19   are excuses left? And will be safe now for them,
20   too? Can you hand me a progress note?
21 BWHITE: Nobody’s... nobodyís...
22 PETERSON: (UI) I don’t want her to be able to (UI). (UI)
23 BWHITE: I don’t care.
     
    13
     
1 PETERSON: You don’t care what?
2 UF: What have you got the other one on, 3 or 2?
3 PETERSON: 3.
4 UF: 3.
5 BWHITE: There’s nobody in the system, that’s gonna allow
6   the cult to rule our lives.
7 PETERSON: Ummm. They ruled the session most of yesterday.
8 BWHITE: Well.. But they’re not gonna rule the session
9   today.
10 SEWARD: Somebody on that foot was having a problem with
11   that.
12 PETERSON: Um hum. Um hum.
13 UN: These are the straps.
14 CARL?????: (Sighs)
15 UN: These are the (UI) that you ordered, that have
16   arrived.
17 PETERSON: Uh huh.
18 UF: (UI)
19 SEWARD: Somebody on the left (UI) is having a real
20   problem.
21 BWHITE: It’s electricity (crying).
22 PETERSON: I don’t know about, it might be rage.
23 BWHITE: (Sighs) (Crying)
     
    14
     
1 PETERSON: Don’t get to complicated, DICK, (UI).
2 DWHITE: Huh?
3 PETERSON: Don’t get to complicated I’ll never get...(UI).
4 UM: You wanna, (UI) on here?
5 PETERSON: Make it simple for me guys.
6 BWHITE: (Crying and heaving)
7 PETERSON: Well, she asked for (UI).
8 UM: Oh, okay. Well, we’ll just do this one the usual
9   way.
10 BWHITE: (Crying and heaving) No one...
11 PETERSON: No one what? The one on the right.
12 DAVIS: (UI)
13 RUSSELL: (UI)
14 PETERSON: (UI)
15 SEWARD: (UI) (drawer closing)
16 UM: (UI)
17 PETERSON: (UI)
18 BWHITE: (Crying) I hate...
19 PETERSON: The ones that are leading?
20 BWHITE: What?
21 PETERSON: The ones that are leading? The ones that have
22   lead the resistance? The ones that don’t exactly
2   know what to do now except to continue to resist.
     
    15
     
1   The ones that never planned to be asked to join
2   therapy.
3 BWHITE: The ones that don’t want to join in therapy.
4 PETERSON: The ones that don’t want to join therapy?
5 BWHITE: There aren’t any.
6 PETERSON: I don’t believe you.
7 SEWARD: (UI)
8 PETERSON: (UI)
9 SEWARD: I’m sorry.
10 DAVIS: You’re furious that other people have talked so
11   that you could get a hint about who we are.
12 BWHITE: No. My fear is that, that, the cult is lying, and
13   screwed us over, and screwed DICK and GEORGE,
14   and...
15 PETERSON: And you liked it.
16 BWHITE: ...there’s enough of us....
17 PETERSON: You liked it.
18 BWHITE: No! We don’t like it any more!
19 PETERSON: Um hmmm.
20 BWHITE: We, we know now.
21 PETERSON: Uh huh. The ones that are protected are behind
22   the barriers with your automatic behavior.
23 BWHITE: Nooooo!!! (Screams)
     
    16
     
1 PETERSON: You’ve been hiding?
2 BWHITE: (Screams)
3 PETERSON: You’ve been saying there’s no automatic behavior,
4   that you’re in complete control, everything’s
5   hunky-dory, everything’s fine. That’s what you’ve
6   been saying. That’s what you’ve been saying.
7 BWHITE: (crying) We want to be in control, we wanna
8   change things, (crying). At least if, if, we
9   first (UI) yesterday we were mad at DICK, we were
10   mad at BARBARA, we were mad at, we were mad at GEORGE,
11   and the more we raged the more we saw...
12 PETERSON: Um hmmm.
13 BWHITE: We saw that we were mad at the wrong people.
14 PETERSON: Um hmmm.
15 BWHITE: (crying) Now (crying) (screaming) no, don’t hold
16   me down!! No!!! Don’t hold me down! (crying)
17   I’m not gonna let the, I’m not gonna let the cult
18   win this time!!
19 PETERSON: I want the parts out that are the cult. Or they
20   do win. I want the parts out that are the cult.
21 BWHITE: All I know, I thought, they don’t, you’re
22   asking...
23 DAVIS: The wrong person.
     
    17
     
1 PETERSON: I wanna talk to you.
2 SEWARD: The one who knows about the electricity in the
  left foot.
4 PETERSON: Did you ask her to tighten it?
5 SEWARD: Hmmm?
6 PETERSON: Did you ask her to tighten this? We need to have
7   this tightened.
8 RUSSELL: Leave it looser?
9 PETERSON: Tightened.
10 RUSSELL: Yeah, that’s what I was getting at.
11 BWHITE: (Screams) I don’t wanna be going through all
12   this, nobody going through all this, we work too
13   hard.
14 PETERSON: You work too hard, at what?
15 BWHITE: We did everything. (crying)
16 PETERSON: Yeah. You were good cult members, weren’t ya?
17   Good cult leaders?
18 BWHITE: (Screams)
19 PETERSON: Good cult leaders?
20 BWHITE: (Screams) You think you are so god-damn smart.
21 PETERSON: Tell me.
22 BWHITE: The cult will go on even if you, even if, even if
2   I’m dead. The cult will go on.
     
    18
     
1 PETERSON: Uh huh. Yeah. It’s been going for centuries. Uh
2   huh. For centuries it’s been torturing people
3   like you. And torturing people’s family.
4 BWHITE: (Screams)
5 PETERSON: And deep down, deep down inside puppets. I wanna
6   talk to the leader of all the parts.
7 BWHITE: (Screams) Noooo!!! Noooo!
8 PETERSON: You’re choosing and I’m wondering if you could
9   just even consider being out here, all the way out
10   here, all the way out here, past all the things
11   that (UI)...like the automatic behavior, you have
12   to have things like that around you, so that the
13   body never would feel safe enough.
14 BWHITE: (crying and screaming) Go away! Go away!!
15 PETERSON: I’m not going to go away. Youíre here in the
16   therapy, too. All the way down.
17 BWHITE: Do you think I want to see...
18 PETERSON: Want to see what? You win? I want to see you
19   win. You never won in the cult. Never. They
20   took everything that you cared about.
21 BWHITE: They, they took my son and they made him into a
22   puppet. They took my husband and they made me
23   into a puppet. And I’m supposed to be important.
     
    19
     
1   I was supposed to take my mother’s place. I was
2   supposed to, my son was supposed to be important.
3 PETERSON: How does it feel to know that all this falls?
4 BWHITE: I hate it! I hate them. I’m mad. I’ve
5   spent.. I’ve spent a whole lifetime.
6 PETERSON: Who still believes? Who still believes that
7   you’re gonna go back and be Mom’s replacement?
8   What about the parts that believe that?
9 BWHITE: We know...
10 PETERSON: Where are you?
11 BWHITE: We know...
12 PETERSON: Where are you?
13 BWHITE: ...what they had in mind for us.
14 PETERSON: Where are the ones?
15 BWHITE: We’re so stupid.
16 PETERSON: Where are the ones that still believe that?
17 DAVIS: The cult goes on. The cult goes on.
18 BWHITE: Yeah, my sister, SUE, was the one that gets
19   replaced. I was a nothing child. I was the one
20   that they did the experiments on because I was so
21   stupid I couldn’t measure up, not even in the
22   cult. And that was, it was a way...
     
    20
1 PETERSON: Who, who deep down, thinks they’ll still go back
2   and have an important life? Can you come out and
3   talk to us? And get past all the automatic things
4   that protect? Can you come out? I thought you
5   had a higher ration. Can you come out?
6 BWHITE: My...
7 PETERSON: Can you come out?
8 BWHITE: Uh, what we were supposed to continue to do was to
9   recruit people in.
10 SEWARD: I think we’ve got underlings.
11 PETERSON: Yeah. Bunch of bullshit. And so again you’re
12   making choices about how to spend your time.
13 BWHITE: I was not supposed to take my mother’s position.
14   That went to my sister, SUE. I told, I’ve told
15   you that my mother, uh, thinks I’m stupid. Didn’t
16   have the time of day for me. I was the one that
17   they...
18 DAVIS: You can talk to the underlings. You can talk to
19   the underlings.
20 PETERSON: I wanna talk to the one in charge. Because you
21   could be smart in therapy.
22 BWHITE: I...
     
    21
     
1 PETERSON: You could be smart in therapy. I could tell you
2   were stupid in the cult. Your programming is all
3   overture. You really weren’t very good.
4 BWHITE: It wasn’t me they wanted. It was GEORGE. It was
5   DICK they wanted. I, (crying), they didn’t want
6   me.
7 PETERSON: Where are all those deeper parts, where is the
8   leader?
9 SEWARD: I thought the cult made courageous parts,
10   important, brave parts.
11 BWHITE: I was brave. Do you think... I was brave. I am
12   brave. Do you think I...
13 SEWARD: How about the leaders? How come they’re not brave
14   enough to be out?
15 BWHITE: They are out!
16 PETERSON: No, but you want us to believe that I told you,
17   when you were sitting in the chair, that I would
18   know the difference. Because, you see, this is
19   very interesting, DR. SEWARD. Yesterday, I
20   mentioned a few things like gods and planets and
21   things like that, and they stopped breathing.
22 BWHITE: I told you what they meant.
     
    22
     
1 PETERSON: Um hmmm. And everybody began, I think, to realize
2   that, you know, these secrets are keeping (UI)
3   secrets.
4 BWHITE: If you didn’t, uh, if it wasn’t...
5 DWHITE: I thought that we were just supposed to be brave.
6 PETERSON: What DICK needs to know is that we have spent many
7   sessions with a very resistant patient.
8 BWHITE: They are in charge.
9 SEWARD: Why do they keep sending out lackeys? (drawer
10   closing)
11 BWHITE: (Crying) DICK, I’m not gonna let him... never
12   gonna let go. Don’t you dare.
13 PETERSON: Hi, this is Dr. PETERSON. Who is it? I was
14   paged. I was paged.
15 SEWARD: I believe you’re (UI).
16 PETERSON: Okay, I need to have it later unless it is an
17   emergency. Okay.
18 SEWARD: I thought they were supposed to be strong.
19 BWHITE: They are strong! How can you be strong when
20   you’re in restraints?
21 PETERSON: Yeah.
22 SEWARD: What keeps amazing me is they’re not strong enough
23   to be out. You have to keep sending the
     
    23
     
1   underlings out. Now, isn’t that what restraints
2   are for?
3 PETERSON: Yeah. Hm mmm. I gave it to DICK.
4 SEWARD: You keep sending the lightweights out.
5 PETERSON: No, that was finished. It’s on the computer.
6   Under Austin.
7 SEWARD: The lightweights can pull on them, but they can’t,
8   the leaders can’t be here. With or without the
9   restraints.
10 BWHITE: All the leaders know, the leaders only know about
11   automatic, automatic programming. They know how
12   to rage...
13 SEWARD: So they...
14 BWHITE: ...know how to kill.
15 DAVIS: You don’t know what they think. You know, don’t
16   know what they know. Why don’t you shut up? You
17   don’t know what we know.
18 SEWARD: Yeah, I would have thought that the leaders would
19   know everything, not just a little bit. I mean
20   how would they be a leader if they...
21 PETERSON: (Still talking on phone.. .UI)
22 SEWARD: ...only knew a little bit. That sounds to me like
23   another underling.
     
    24
1 PETERSON: Okay, but...
2 BWHITE: I know that...I know that DICK and GEORGE...
3 PETERSON: Okay.
4 BWHITE: ...were the important ones that they wanted.
5 PETERSON: Right.
6 BWHITE: And that...I knew that even...(pause).
7 PETERSON: Um hmmm.
8 SEWARD: Think of it as the lightening.
9 BWHITE: Even as a, even as a...
10 DAVIS: It’s good that you don’t mistake these light
11   weights, as you call them for us. It’s almost a
12   relief...
13 BWHITE: That’s why I...
14 DAVIS: ...to know you can tell the difference.
15 BWHITE: That’s why I knew that even, even my mother and
16   other people, with DICK, was more important, GEORGE
17   was more important than me. And I was just
18   secondary. And that’s why I had to try so hard
19   to maintain.
20 SEWARD: I think this is a subterfuge.
21 PETERSON: See what’s, I don’t know what you all have been
22   saying, I missed out on a few minutes here. What
23   I’m wondering about is why, when she has not
     
    25
     
1   pretended to really be the center focus and a
2   success in therapy that she chooses to be a
3   failure at that too. That the parts that know
4   things that could help the family, so that she
5   could really get even with the cult, she doesn’t
6   even do that.
7 DAVIS: We don’t wanna be a success in therapy. It’s
8   almost tempting, it’s almost flattering, that you
9   recognize that we’re different. It’s almost
10   tempting to come out and let you know how puny you
11   are.
12 SEWARD: It sounds like you’re proud of the fact that you
13   can hide so well.
14 PETERSON: See, time will come and go and then you’ll be left
15   behind. And DICK and GEORGE will get well anyway.
16   And you’ll be left in the dust. Left in the dust
17   with the cult. And left in the dust as a failure.
18   And that’s reality. Absolute reality.
19 BWHITE: I don’t wanna, can’t you believe that I don’t,
20   GEORGE and DICK are safe in LaGrange. I didn’t have
21   any contacts in LaGrange.
22 SEWARD: Poppycock.
23 BWHITE: I didn’t!
     
    26
     
1 SEWARD: Poppycock.
2 PETERSON: Is that right, DICK?
3 DICK: There’s cult in LaGrange.
4 PETERSON: Hm hmmmm.
5 SEWARD: Nice try.
6 BWHITE: I didn’t have any contacts in LaGrange. My
7   contacts were in SCHAUMBURG. I never...
8 PETERSON: See, you throw it, how far is that? I don’t know
9   Chicago. How far is that? Signaling, signaling.
10   Don’t talk, don’t talk. How far is that?
11 BWHITE: It’s 40 minutes.
12 PETERSON: 40 minutes! Hey! I drive that far to come down
13   here every day.
14 BWHITE: Okay.
15 PETERSON: I live at the other end of town. I can cope with
16   that every day. Good cult members probably drive
17   long distances to go to the special places.
18 DAVIS: Even the ones below know that’s feeble attempt.
19   Feeble defense.
20 DWHITE: Your brother lives 15 minutes from LaGrange.
21 BWHITE: There’s no where...
22 PETERSON: What?
23 DWHITE: Her brother lives 15 minutes from LaGrange.
     
    27
     
1 PETERSON: 15 minutes from her brother. How convenient. The
2   brother that tried to choke GEORGE and said it was
3   DAD.
4 SEWARD: You sound really proud of your ability to defeat
5   treatment.
6 BWHITE: Why won’t you believe (crying) me? Why won’t you
7   believe me? I won’t...
8 PETERSON: Where are the leaders that are hiding behind the
9   automatic behavior? All of you are afraid even in
10   restraints?
11 BWHITE: (Sighs)
12 PETERSON: Even in restraints to deal with the automatic
13   behavior?
14 SEWARD: Maybe they’re not leaders.
15 BWHITE: The automatic behavior....
16 PETERSON: (Interrupts - UI)
17 BWHITE: ...right now wants to kill you for, for, for...
18 PETERSON: Do you think I’m gonna die?
19 BWHITE: I hate you!! I hate you!!! I hate you!!!
20   (Screams) I hate you!!!
21 PETERSON: I know.
22 BWHITE: (Crying)
23 PETERSON: It’s all right. Tell me about it.
     
    28
     
1 BWHITE: I hate you because...
2 PETERSON: Why?
3 BWHITE: You ruined it. You ruined it. You...
4 PETERSON: Tell me about it.
5 DAVIS: You’ve ruined my upper defenses.
6 PETERSON: You’ve ruined my upper defenses.
7 BWHITE: You gone before, you’ve gone beyond where I know.
8   Where we were supposed to go, now I don’t know.
9   (crying) I can’t tell you because I don’t know.
10   I tell you, I want (crying)..I just hate you. You,
11   you probably even trained the cult in
12   treatment and I’m asking for treatment, and, and
13   you’re just shoving me and saying, here, come get
14   her! Well, then just let me out of the hospital
15   and let em come get me! (crying)
16 PETERSON: Where are the parts that are behind the parts that
17   hate me? Where are the parts that really want to
18   kill me? Where are you?
19 SEWARD: The ones that are too frightened to come out.
20 BWHITE: They’re not frightened!
21 SEWARD: They’re hiding...
22 BWMANLEY: I hate you too... you always say the damn, stupid
2   things. You come in, and I hate you. (crying)
     
    29
     
1 SEWARD: Talk to me instead of swinging at me.
2 PETERSON: Can you talk at the same time?
3 BWHITE: (Crying)
4 PETERSON: Did they teach you that?
5 SEWARD: You didn’t like me knowing that you were
6   frightened.
7 BWHITE: (Crying) (UI)
8 SEWARD: Being frightened is a secret then, isn’t it?
9 PETERSON: Terrified.
10 SEWARD: Terrified.
11 BWHITE: If you’re frightened, then the cult, they pick on
12   you! You’re the one that they pick on. So I hate
13   you! And, it’s, it’s easy, it’s easy to be where
14   you are. No wonder I can’t, I can’t...
15 PETERSON: You’re terrified. Terrified.
16 BWHITE: (Crying) Well, what do you want me to tell you?
17   I, I...
18 PETERSON: I wanna talk to the ones behind you.
19 SEWARD: The ones that are terrified to be out.
20 PETERSON: Uh huh.
21 BWHITE: I told you that my role in...
22 PETERSON: Oh, baloney.
23 SEWARD: Too terrified to stay here.
     
    30
     
1 PETERSON: Yeah. Can’t come all the way out.
2 SEWARD: They didn’t want me to know that they’re weak.
3 BWHITE: (Crying)
4 SEWARD: They’re not as weak as they were, and they’re
5   weaker than they thought they were.
6 BWHITE: (Crying) I don’t know what we are any more.
7 DAVIS: Too weak to take over the body. Too weak, even,
8   to take over the body. Can’t get through this
9   body. Can’t shove those others aside any more.
10 SEWARD: They just thought that we were the weak ones.
11 BWHITE: (Panting) Yeah, well, always be people that we
12   can get into the cult.
13 SEWARD: We’ll talk to them when they get ready to come
14   into treatment. We need to talk to the leaders.
15 DAVIS: You can’t even take over the body any more. You
16   can’t even take over the body and come out and
17   talk.
18 BWHITE: Well,...
19 PETERSON: Amazing. If you were in the cult right now, what
20   would happen?
21 BWHITE: You know what would happen.
22 PETERSON: I don’t know, I’m not in the cult.
     
    31
     
1 BWHITE: They’d drug my arm, they’d shut me up some way.
2   They don’t want me talking.
3 PETERSON: So you’re waiting for that to happen again, so all
4   the leaders down deep will be responsible for what
5   happens to the body.
6 BWHITE: How can we change?
7 PETERSON: By coming out.
8 BWHITE: The only way we know is, is, is,...
9 PETERSON: You can keep on swinging, it’s okay. You can come
10   out swinging...
11 BWHITE: (Screams) (Screams) You don’t.. you hate me,
12   you’ve always hated me. You lied to me.
13 SEWARD: I’ve never said that.
14 BWHITE: You make fun of me.
15 SEWARD: I’ve never said that.
16 BWHITE: You said, (crying). Youíre setting me up.
17   They’re setting me up.
18 SEWARD: (UI)
19 BWHITE: (Crying) The only people that ever cared about me
20   in my life...were DICK... (Crying)
21   (PAUSE)
22 BWHITE: (Screams) (Screams) (Crying)
     
    32
1 PETERSON: The leaders have spent an hour now almost,
2   waiting for time to go by and DICK to leave.
3   Cause he will leave. He has to catch a plane.
4   And you’ll maybe have regrets, you’ll maybe be
5   angry at the leaders, but opportunities come and
6   go.
7 BWHITE: I’m not going to let, I’m not going to let DICK
8   leave.
9 PETERSON: He is leaving. He’s going back to Chicago. He
10   has a plane.
11 SEWARD: Just in a few hours.
12 PETERSON: Uh huh. So the whole business of the last two
13   minutes of the session of somebody coming out,
14   isn’t gonna really help you very much in this
15   situation. Because those leaders need to come out
16   and then to be able to communicate. Let’s begin
17   to do that. Without the things that DICK came
18   about, which is your safety and GEORGE’s safety and
19   DICK’s safety. And so as long as you lie here and
20   you don’t do that, you’re all saying I love the
21   cult more than DICK. I love the cult more than
22   GEORGE.
     
    33
     
1 SEWARD: And furthermore we won’t know that it was a trick.
2   We will know that you tricked DICK, we know that
3   you will trick, that you will have tricked us, we
4   know that you will have tricked BARBARA. And the
5   tricks won’t work. Because we won’t hate BARBARA.
6   And we’ll still get through to BARBARA.
7 BWHITE: Well, I don’t know.
8 SEWARD: I’m talking to the leaders.
9 BWHITE: And the leaders?
10 SEWARD: Your tricks won’t work.
11 PETERSON: We’re on to it. DICK’s on to it. GEORGE’s on to it.
12 BWHITE: What if there is no way to stop the cult?
13 SEWARD: We’re not trying to stop the cult.
14 BWHITE: What if there’s no way to guarantee?
15 PETERSON: The only thing we can say is that the leaders
16   never come out. They’ll never know. And I can
17   tell you that if they never come out, that you
18   will go back and I can tell you from what DICK has
19   said, that that will be unacceptable, you should
20   say that. You will never know whether there was
21   an opportunity. You’ll never know. The leaders
     
    34
     
1   inside, you are stopping the body from ever
2   knowing.
3 SEWARD: And from ever having a choice.
4 PETERSON: Just like MOM wants.
5 BWHITE: But you’re asking...
6 PETERSON: Just like MOM wants.
7 BWHITE: The leaders, the leaders want to be in therapy.
8 PETERSON: No, they don’t. Or they would be here.
9 BWHITE: But they are here.
10 PETERSON: If the body needs to be any safer, please let us
11   know.
12 BWHITE: They are here. And I’m telling you.
13 SEWARD: If they are, then they’re hiding behind someone.
14 PETERSON: Um hmmm. They’re hiding behind the ones that come
15   out once in a while now, and say that they hate us
16   and all, and they’re gonna kill us and all this,
17   see we don’t get up, we don’t leave, we’re not
18   going to.
19 SEWARD: Kinda like hiding behind MOMMY’s skirts.
20 PETERSON: Um hmmm. That’s what princesses do, don’t they?
21   (UI) princesses?
22 BWHITE: They want treatment.
23 SEWARD: We’d be glad to talk to them.
     
    35
     
1 BWHITE: But you say, safety, I don’t know. The only thing
2   that I know is that each individual person has to
3   make the commitment that they never want to go
4   back to the cult.
5 PETERSON: The leaders inside, their commitment... (UI). And
6   the leaders inside know they’re hiding out with
7   information about all of your safety.
8 BWHITE: No.
9 PETERSON: And I will not believe they don’t know. Period.
10   So you’re making - I love MOM... (tape
11   skips) ... (UI).
12 BWHITE: I know that DICK... (tape ends).
13   (End of Side #1)
14   (Beginning of Side #2)
15 DAVIS: I’m really sorry the leaders don’t come out.
16 PETERSON: Yeah.
17 DAVIS: Let me know if I’m understanding them at all.
18 SEWARD: The ones that are hiding (UI).
19 DAVIS: Um hmmm.
20 PETERSON: I think that being a princess and a queen is still
21   the (UI).
22 BWHITE: But we know that’s not going to happen.
23 SEWARD: Can you step aside?
     
    36
     
1 BWHITE: We know that the leaders...
2 PETERSON: (Interrupts) (UI)
3 SEWARD: Can you step aside?
4 BWHITE: The leaders know that. Do you think they’re happy
5   about it? (Crying)
6 SEWARD: Yeah.
7 BWHITE: That, that we’re not gonna be...
8 SEWARD: Yeah, because I don’t think they know that. I
9   don’t think they believe, that they’re gonna be
10   here.
11 PETERSON: They’d be here front and center.
12 BWHITE: I don’t want to be in the cult.
13 SEWARD: Can you step aside?
14 BWHITE: I don’t wanna be in the cult (crying).
15 PETERSON: Can you step aside, you don’t wanna be, not that
16   you can step aside and go away and stop being the
17   gate keeper and open the gates, and open the
18   doors.
19 BWHITE: (Sighs)
20 SEWARD: So that the pathway is clear.
21 BWHITE: (Crying)
22 SEWARD: Let the pathway be completely clear for the first
23   time.
     
    37
     
1 BWHITE: (Crying)
2 SEWARD: For the first time ever.
3 BWHITE: (Crying) GEORGE is...
4 DAVIS: It takes with you all the way to the meadow, some
5   place peaceful. Get out of the way.
6 PETERSON: (UI)
7 DAVIS: Well, let me help you squeeze the parts below.
8   Squeeze, see if you can pull me back.
9 BWHITE: (Crying)
10 SEWARD: I think the door’s still open and the gates.
11 BWHITE: (Crying)
12 DAVIS: The memories go away to...
13 BWHITE: (Crying) Please help me.
14 PETERSON: And if you leave, there will be others, to be
15   responsible in therapy. Which is what you say
16   (UI)
17 BWHITE: GEORGE was never supposed to be. Nobody...
18 PETERSON: (Interrupts) Take your tapes with you.
19 BWHITE: Nobody was supposed to know that GEORGE was smart,
20   so that he could be...
21 PETERSON: Take it with you.
22 DAVIS: To the meadow, those who love GEORGE and DICK to the
2   meadow. Those who love GEORGE and DICK.
     
    38
     
1 BWHITE: DICK is... GEORGE was my ticket. GEORGE is my ticket.
2   In the cult.
3 SEWARD: Your ticket has been punched.
4 DAVIS: Below that. Below that. Those loving GEORGE and
5   DICK to the meadow.
6 BWHITE: That’s my...we were so careful to have them
7   trained and perfect.
8 SEWARD: Coming from here. Coming from here. Through the
9   gate of the pathway. You know how to come up the
10   path. You know how to find the path around the
11   blocks.
12 BWHITE: (Crying)
13 SEWARD: If you truly (UI)...the leadership will, for the
14   first time.
15 PETERSON: All the way out.
16 SEWARD: All the way into the (UI). For the first time you
17   can have a leadership role.
18 BWHITE: Don’t you understand? I don’t care about GEORGE and
19   DICK except that they made me. GEORGE was my ticket
20   in the cult because he was supposed to be, I was
21   supposed to train him so well and take him so that
22   he would be perfect in all the training to kill.
     
    39
     
1 SEWARD: Can the one on the left toe come up and talk? All
2   the way out.
3 PETERSON: All the way out.
4 SEWARD: All the way.
5 BWHITE: So that he...
6 SEWARD: Through the gates.
7 BWHITE: ...take over the organization, the parts that I
8   don’t even understand.
9 SEWARD: To be a leader for the first time.
10 BWHITE: I’m so...
11 SEWARD: To have courage for the first time.
12 BWHITE: Be like...
13 SEWARD: To have power for the first time.
14 BWHITE: He was supposed to be like Jesus, and I was
15   supposed to be like his mother, and DICK was, DICK
16   was, they used DICK for...
17 SEWARD: For the first time, can you really be a leader?
18 PETERSON: All the way out.
19 BWHITE: They used DICK for a breeder.
20 PETERSON: All the way out.
21 SEWARD: You have a choice to be a leader for the first
22   time, for real.
23 PETERSON: All the way out.
     
    40
     
1 BWHITE: And I knew....
2 PETERSON: All the way out.
3 BWHITE: I knew that.
4 PETERSON: All the way out.
5 BWHITE: I knew that.
6 PETERSON: All the way out.
7 BWHITE: I knew if DICK and GEORGE knew, if DICK and GEORGE, I
8   need them.
9 PETERSON: All the way out.
10 BWHITE: I need them. I need them in the cult because if I
11   go back to the cult without them I have nothing to
12   offer.
13 SEWARD: If you go back to the cult, would you like to not,
14   for the first time you have a choice.
15 BWHITE: I don’t wanna go back to the cult.
16 SEWARD: What’s this "if" business?
17 BWHITE: Well, you asked me why.
18 SEWARD: What’s this "if" business?
19 BWHITE: I don’t wanna go back. I keep telling you.
20 SEWARD: What’s this "if" business?
21 BWHITE: I don’t wanna go back!
22 SEWARD: Where’s the "if" coming from?
     
    41
     
1 PETERSON: I think they don’t wanna say they were ever in
2   therapy. They resist it to the end. To take that
3   back is what you’re all holding on to.
4 SEWARD: Would you like to be a leader for the first time?
5 BWHITE: What good does it do now? If I go back now...
6 SEWARD: Yes?
7 PETERSON: Yeah. You’re trying to hold on.
8 DAVIS: When I go back.
9 PETERSON: When I go back.
10 BWHITE: No!! Never!
11 PETERSON: Yeah.
12 BWHITE: It doesn’t...
13   (Talking simultaneously)
14 BWHITE: It won’t do me any good. I’ve talked enough.
15 PETERSON: They won’t believe that you haven’t talked to us.
16 BWHITE: They know.
17 PETERSON: Yeah. They know everything. They know what
18   you’re doing in therapy.
19 BWHITE: And they will know that I’m not trustworthy.
20 PETERSON: Um hmmm.
21 BWHITE: And I’ll be used.
22 SEWARD: Well, then, come on up and talk to us about the
23   rest of it.
     
    42
     
1 PETERSON: Yeah.
2 SEWARD: What’s the problem?
3 PETERSON: You think you get brownie points for not having
4   helped DICK and GEORGE at this point?
5 BWHITE: No.
6 PETERSON: No.
7 BWHITE: I want to be in therapy.
8 PETERSON: No you don’t.
9 SEWARD: Well then come out of the toe. Come into the
10   entire body.
11 BWHITE: (UI). (Crying)
12 PETERSON: Come on.
13 BWHITE: (Crying) The only way. God, please.
14 SEWARD: What’s the pathway? The only pathway?
15 PETERSON: You find it all the way out.
16 BWHITE: (Crying)
17 PETERSON: All the way out.
18 SEWARD: You know the pathway. For the first time you can
19   choose to be out. You can choose to be out
20   without wires, without any of the beatings,
21   without the fish hooks. You can come out on your
22   own by your own choice because you can become a
23   leader for the first time.
     
    43
     
1 BWHITE: (UI)
2 PETERSON: (UI)
3 BWHITE: Will you keep me safe?
4 PETERSON: Um hmmm. We’ll keep you safe.
5 SEWARD: All the way from the toe.
6 PETERSON: Um hmmm. We’ll keep the body safe.
7 BWHITE: It gets more and more complicated. It gets
8   further and further from reality.
9 PETERSON: And more and more, dangerous.
10 BWHITE: I never, I never...
11 PETERSON: More and more dangerous. So can the most
12   dangerous parts know that the body can be kept
13   safe? Is it safe enough? Hmmm?
14 BWHITE: (Crying) We never....
15 PETERSON: All the way down.
16 BWHITE: When the barriers were up it was easy to do
17   whatever they wanted us to do. To bring in
18   children.
19 PETERSON: And the parts all the way down. From the toe.
20 BWHITE: It’s not so easy when you know the whole thing.
21   When you know what a role you’ve been playing.
22 PETERSON: And then you know all the programming too.
23 SEWARD: That’s a tape.
     
    44
     
1 BWHITE: I can feel...
2 PETERSON: Can you feel that the body is safe enough?
3 BWHITE: I don’t know what you mean by programming.
4 SEWARD: Who in the world are you?
5 DAVIS: That was a guick (UI).
6 BWHITE: I tell you, you know GEORGE was trained...
7 PETERSON: Forget it. Don’t bother. Please.
8 BWHITE: Give up on me.
9 PETERSON: I might do that. Cause somebody inside gave up
10   just then. You expect everybody else to sit
11   around. Who’s giving up inside?
12 BWHITE: Well, I tell you...
13 PETERSON: Who won’t come out?
14 BWHITE: I tell you what I...
15 PETERSON: Who won’t come out? No!
16 SEWARD: It’s so cowardly that they just went away.
17 PETERSON: Yeah.
18 SEWARD: Offered a leadership role for the first time in
19   your existence and you’re a coward.
20 PETERSON: Blatantly a coward. That’s programming. I mean,
21   it’s like, it’s really sort of a slap in the face
22   kind of comment. You know, like, the hell with
23   you. I need to turn to DICK and say that may be
     
    45
     
1   what it is with this lady. And that would be very
2   sad. To make that choice.
3 SEWARD: And DICK will have to leave without a safekeeper
4   and (UI).
5 BWHITE: I can give him his therapy agreement. I can give
6   him...
7 PETERSON: Nope. For people who don’t know anything about
8   programming, I, DICK, you wanna get a safety
9   agreement from somebody who knows nothing about
10   programming?
11 DWHITE: No.
12 PETERSON: It would be very stupid, wouldn’t it? DICK’s not a
13   stupid man.
14 SEWARD: And DICK would have to go tell GEORGE that he doesn’t
15   have a safety agreement.
16 PETERSON: He doesn’t have a mother that will help at all.
17   That she actively chose not to.
18 SEWARD: And that part that has just come out in GEORGE, who
19   - misses his mother and wants to be with her.
20 BWHITE: (Crying)
21 PETERSON: You need to know that will never happen.
22 BWHITE: I don’t know how to tell you about programming.
23   I, I, it’s not.. .1 can’t give you any..
     
    46
     
1 DAVIS: Then go away!
2 BWHITE: ...codes and...
3 SEWARD: Step aside.
4 BWHITE: He could tell you what we were supposed to do,
5   what we did.
6 SEWARD: Step aside. The one who was so frightened and
7   terrified of us, that just went away is still
8   invited to become a leader.
9 BWHITE: (Sighs)
10 SEWARD: I always thought that that was the leader. You
11   wanna be one. Still.
12   (door opens and closes)
13 PETERSON: I guess the parts that came out that wanted to,
14   um, kill us, DR. SEWARD, are not willing to come
15   out and actually...
16 SEWARD: Meet us.
17 PETERSON: Meet us face to face, and let the leaders come out
18   that are hiding behind that. You want to save the
19   killing job. DICK, you need to know she’s saving
20   the killing job.
21 BWHITE: I can’t kill you...
22 PETERSON: You’re in restraints. Not in the unit or a dark
23   alley.
     
    47
     
1 BWHITE: I told you before, that its the only behavior they
2   know...
3 PETERSON: They won’t work it out, though, and so what DICK
4   and GEORGE need to know is that youíre lethal.
5 BWHITE: But you told them they could have new jobs and
6   they’ve been working on new jobs.
7 PETERSON: Those parts that came out just now to visit went
8   back inside. And took their jobs with them.
9   Versus working them out.
10 SEWARD: They turned down the new jobs.
11 PETERSON: Yeah. They came out and showed us...
12 BWHITE: I don’t want, I don’t want...
13 PETERSON: They didn’t come all the way out.
14 BWHITE: (UI)
15 PETERSON: They didn’t wanna come all the way out, though.
16 BWHITE: I don’t wanna take GEORGE back to the cult so he can
17   be some, organizational man.
18 PETERSON: (UI)
19 BWHITE: I don’t want him to live that way. I don’t want
20   him to live that way! I don’t want GEORGE to live
21   that way any more!
22 SEWARD: You want him to be the Antichrist.
23 PETERSON: Yeah. And you want to be the Virgin Barbara.
     
    48
     
1 BWHITE: But it’s not gonna happen.
2 PETERSON: No. But those of you that want to kill want to
3   keep your job.
4 BWHITE: I don’t wanna keep the job. I wanna...
5 PETERSON: You are, you took it right back inside. Those of
6   you that kill, listen to me. You came out to
7   visit and I appreciate your visit. That was nice.
8 SEWARD: They just acknowledged your thank you.
9 PETERSON: Uh huh. You still got your job.
10 BWHITE: I don’t want it.
11 PETERSON: I need to talk to DICK, and say DICK, she has the
12   job to kill and she keeps it. Rather than working
13   it out.
14 BWHITE: God, I don’t...
15 PETERSON: So they’re really not in a position to work on
16   safety at all when you’ve got killers in there
17   that won’t even come out, to talk about how the
18   killers would be in the cult. I would guess. that
19   DICK might be interested in the killers in the cult
20   that aren’t in your body and are in other people’s
21   bodies. That might be one of the things he’s
22   worried about, about safety. So you guys care to
23   visit. I’m glad you did. You showed DICK what
     
    49
     
1   killers look like and how they act. You did a
2   good job of that.
3 SEWARD: They came and acknowledged.
4 PETERSON: Yeah. Yeah.
5 SEWARD: So we know you’re listening.
6 PETERSON: Yeah, of course they’re listening. My goodness,
7   of course they are. Of course they are. And
8   they’re hiding the leaders.
9 BWHITE: If the cult wants...
10 PETERSON: With guards around them.
11 BWHITE: If the cult wants.
12 SEWARD: (UI)
13 BWHITE: If the cults wants to get DICK or GEORGE, if they
14   wanna get me, if they wanna get you, they can.
15   It’s not, if that’s what they want, you have to
16   put yourself, put yourself in a position where
17   you’re too visible. You’re too strong and they
18   know that they can break you. Never.
19 SEWARD: So if that’s the case, I don’t understand why it’s
20   important to keep secrets.
21 BWHITE: I’m trying to tell you.
22 DAVIS: Secrets that aren’t secrets.
     
    50
     
1 PETERSON: So what you’re saying is the cult doesn’t know
2   what to do with strong people?
3 BWHITE: Well, they, they can’t risk someone who, who will
4   tell, or who will go into...
5 SEWARD: So I guess I’m confused about why all of you are
6   pretending to be so strong.
7 BWHITE: (crying) Not strong.
8 SEWARD: (UI)...don’t understand why you need to hide.
9 BWHITE: We’re not strong. (crying)
10 PETERSON: The killers tried to act strong.
11   DAVIS: Like a play.
12 BWHITE: The whole thing is like a play. You have, you
13   have to perform, you have to do this, you have to
14   do that, so that you can fake the next person out.
15 PETERSON: To play a role.
16 SEWARD: So they’re still trying to fake us out?
17 BWHITE: But we’re not that strong and you...
18 SEWARD: Then come out and talk.
19 PETERSON: Yeah.
20 BWHITE: I’m afraid that the only way to keep GEORGE and DICK
21   safe is to...
22 PETERSON: Is to what?
23 BWHITE: Is to relocate me.
     
    51
     
1 PETERSON: Relocate you?
2 BWHITE: And, and relocate them.
3 DAVIS: Where are they gonna relocate the lower folks to?
4   Got another body for them to go to?
5 BWHITE: Well, then keep me in therapy until...
6 PETERSON: When are you gonna relocate the cult folks that
7   are gonna go and plot DICK and GEORGE’s murder?
8 SEWARD: Pretending to be strong.
9 PETERSON: He’s terrified.
10 BWHITE: Until....
11 PETERSON: Terrified. GEORGE is terrified that you will come
12   and kill him.
13 BWHITE: I won’t. I hate the cult and I will do everything
14   I can to protect him against it.
15 PETERSON: Even have those murderers come out, that want to
16   kill DR. SEWARD and me here, they’d kill GEORGE.’ So
17   you’d help the other murderers in other bodies
18   help kill them.
19 SEWARD: What confuses me is that the parts that say that
20   they hate me and you also, I wonder if they’re
21   trying to pretend that we’re in the cult.
22 PETERSON: Um hmmm.
     
    52
     
1 BWHITE: I was done past that. I put too much trust in
2   you.
3 PETERSON: Enough trust to let the killers out and know that
4   I still sit here? I’ll move my chair back so I
5   don’t get hurt. That’s just logical. But I’m
6   gonna be right here.
7 BWHITE: But I don’t want, we don’t want to do our jobs
8   anywhere. We want it to be different! Don’t you
9   hear us? We want different jobs!
10 PETERSON: The only [way???] it’s different is if they come
11   out, if they really come out. And not have someone
12   speak for them.
13 BWHITE: They can’t speak. All they can do is rage. And
14   all they can do is try and kill because that’s
15   what they were trained for!
16 PETERSON: Then where are the leaders behind you?
17 SEWARD: If they want to apply for a new job they have to
18   apply in person.
19 BWHITE: (Crying) But they wouldn’t...
20 PETERSON: And the leaders would have to come out in person,
21   that are hiding.
     
    53
     
1 BWHITE: (Screams) (crying) (Screams) I want you to be
2   scared and so there’s nobody (UI). We don’t have
3   any.
4 SEWARD: You want us to be scared? You want us to be cult?
5 PETERSON: We’re not scared. I think you’re depending on
6   that. That we’re not scared. But you’ve done a
7   good job of scaring DICK and GEORGE.
8 SEWARD: If only if we’re scared can they really carry
9   their potensive power to its logical conclusion.
10   If we act scared, then you can be powerful.
12 PETERSON: So they can...
12 SEWARD: It becomes a choice. You can have a choice to be
13   powerful anyway.
14 BWHITE: But I don’t wanna be powerful for the cult.
15 SEWARD: I don’t believe it.
16 PETERSON: You’re saving it. For victims that are tied down
17   (UI) . For victims that are powerless. Little
18   boys. Grown men that are drugged and shocked.
19   Then you’re real powerful, dancing around. That’s
20   what you’re all waiting for. To go back to that.
21 BWHITE: No. No. Because, we know now. Before we....
22 PETERSON: (Interrupting) No...(UI) maybe you’ll be sneakier
23   now.
     
    54
     
1 SEWARD: The upper levels know maybe.
2 PETERSON: The deeper levels, maybe, are just trying to
3   figure how to be sneakier next time.
4 DAVIS: To get forth good sacrifices.
5 PETERSON: Recruit.
6 DAVIS: Good sacrifices...
7 BWHITE: No. No one in our system. There are too many in
8   our system.
9 SEWARD: Didn’t send the leaders.
10 PETERSON: If it’s all-fired important now that you’re not in
11   the cult, and you’re just all of you, all of you
12   are there, why are we seeing this resistance? You
13   see, I don’t see it in folks. I mean I have
14   leaders just come right out in other people I work
15   with. They just come right out. I don’t get
16   this.
17 BWHITE: I don’t know how.
18 PETERSON: Baloney. In the cult you would do it immediately.
19 SEWARD: Open the gate. Open the doors and find the
20   pathway that you already know.
     
    55
     
1 PETERSON: They come out, they tell me their name, they do
2   their work. They organize stuff, they get in
3   therapy organized, cause they want...
4 SEWARD: The ones down here.
5 BWHITE: We don’t....
6 SEWARD: Step aside.
7 BWHITE: Well, what we were supposed to do, we don’t wanna
8   do anymore. We don’t want.. I’m not gonna give
9   up.
10 PETERSON: Would you rather save your automatic behavior for
11   the cult, you don’t wanna be out of control here.
12   You don’t wanna be out of control with DICK here.
13 SEWARD: The cult leaders are certainly....
14 BWHITE: I don’t care if DICK sees me out of control.
15 PETERSON: He’s seeing a very resistant lady who is
16   responsible and has information that would help
17   him and his son. And I wonder how he feels about
18   the fact that even though three therapists sit
19   here working hard, much harder than you. You lie
20   here, resisting. And to lie here, (UI), I wonder
21   how you feel DICK?
22 DWHITE: I feel like you’re slapping me in the face.
23   Because you’re trying to pretend deep down that I
     
    56
     
1   don’t know you’re there. My body knows you’re
2   there. And I am consciously aware that you’re
3   there. And that you have a clear choice right now
4   before I get on my airplane of whether you’re
5   gonna help me or not.
6 BWHITE: I wanna help you. I wanna help you.
7 SEWARD: The one down here’s the one who’s talking.
8 DWHITE: All the way up from way down. Come out.
9 BWHITE: (Screams) I will help you!
10 SEWARD: All the way out.
11 BWHITE: (Screams) I will help you! Give me a chance!
12 DWHITE: All the way up.
13 BWHITE: Give me a chance!
14 DWHITE: All the way up.
15 BWHITE: Give me a chance! (Screams) Give me a chance!
16   Don’t go away!
17 DWHITE: All the way up. Come on up.
18 BWHITE: (Screams) Don’t go away! Don’t go away! I will
19   help you!
20 SEWARD: The one down here.
21 DWHITE: Step aside and let that part...
22 BWHITE: (Screams) (Crying)
23 PETERSON: All the way up.
     
    57
     
1 BWHITE: (Screams) (Screams) You can’t (UI) me! I, I
2   want you! I don’t want GEORGE to suffer. I don’t
3   want you to suffer. There is too much suffering.
4   The suffering needs to stop! (Crying)
5 DWHITE: All the way up.
6 BWHITE: The pain needs to stop.
7 DWHITE: The one that controls the whole system has to come
8   all the way up. All the way up.
9 BWHITE: (Screams) I hate the cult! I hate what they made
10   me do!
11 PETERSON: It’s all right.
12 SEWARD: No, you hate DR. PETERSON and me.
13 PETERSON: Come all the [??]up, the ones that hate. The ones
14   that hate DICK for asking and the ones that hate
15   for DICK for figuring it out.
16 DAVIS: (UI) for a sacrifice still...
17 SEWARD: The ones who hate DICK for helping GEORGE get away.
18 PETERSON: Yeah. Taking away your pawn. Your pawn.
19 SEWARD: Your ticket.
20 PETERSON: Your ticket.
21 BWHITE: There’s a part of me that.. .there’s a part of me
22   that says...
     
    58
     
1 PETERSON: (UI)...neutralize now. Go ahead. Lets have more
2   tape.
3 BWHITE: I do.
4 PETERSON: I want the part out that’s in charge. Or DICK’s
5   asking about. The one in charge.
6 SEWARD: He was talking to the part down here.
7 PETERSON: Um hmmm.
8 BWHITE: (Screams) You can’t! No one will ever control
9   me! No one will ever control me. You can wait,
10   and you can wait, and you can wait!
11 PETERSON: And can you stay out here and tell me about how I
12   will never control you? Can you stay out here?
13 SEWARD: Have you got the courage?
14 PETERSON: Huh? Can you come all the way out?
15 SEWARD: Have you got the courage to be a leader for the
16   first time?
17 PETERSON: Um hmmm. And tell us how we will never control
18   you, explain it to us. Explain that to us.
19 SEWARD: We’ll never control you because we don’t use
20   electricity.
21 PETERSON: Explain to us how you’re all powerful. Will you
22   explain to me how I’ll never, ever be able to help
     
    59
     
1   you? As a therapist? How everything will be the
2   same. Can you explain it?
3 BWHITE: We have to believe that or our whole life has
4   been, our whole life has been a mockery.
5 PETERSON: Can you explain that to me?
6 BWHITE: I really....
7 PETERSON: I’ll never get to you.
8 BWHITE: I’ll ruin...
9 SEWARD: I think you didn’t have the courage to stay out.
10 PETERSON: Are you all the way out?
11 BWHITE: (Screams) Do you think I like knowing...
12 PETERSON: I wanna talk...
13 SEWARD: Yes.
14 PETERSON: I wanna talk to the one that just said you’ll
15   never get to this body.
16 SEWARD: The one who (UI) in the toe.
17 PETERSON: Come all the way out. (Tape skips) ... You may be
18   right. I really want to learn from you.
19 SEWARD: All the way out, up to the....
20 PETERSON: Want to learn from you.
21 SEWARD: All the way. Touch the hip into the entire body.
22   Completely out.
     
    60
     
1 BWHITE: Uh, I’m, I’m afraid I won’t be able to do what
2   you’re asking me.
3 PETERSON: (UI). I wanna talk to the one that was just out.
4   That said I’ll never get this body.
5 SEWARD: You can let go of the electricity so that you no
6   longer have to be controlled by it.
7 PETERSON: Can you come all the way out?
8 SEWARD: Without the electricity?
9   (Tape skips)
10 BWHITE: They promised me. They promised us that....
11 SEWARD: You’re back in the toe again.
12 BWHITE: That it would never, it would never get this far
13   down. That no one...
14 PETERSON: We don’t wanna hear about that any more.
15 BWHITE: But they didn’t....
16 PETERSON: You’re not stupid in complementing me on that and
17   I thank you. I wanna talk to the parts that
18   instead are saying it doesn’t really matter (UI).
19   We’re in charge. That’s who was just out...(tape
20   skips)
21 SEWARD: If you’re truly in charge.
22 PETERSON: Come on out and tell me. I’d like to know about
23   that. I’d like you to just tell me. Tell me.
     
    61
     
1 BWHITE: I have to believe that I have it! I have to
2   believe that I have it!
3 PETERSON: We’re not gonna take it away from you.
4 SEWARD: It would be shocking if you didn’t believe it.
5 PETERSON: Um hmmm.
6 BWHITE: I have to believe I have it because if I don’t
7   have it, and you go away, then what am I left
8   with?
9 PETERSON: You have to believe it. How does the power work?
10   Can you help me learn?
11 BWHITE: It’s mostly fear.
12 PETERSON: Wrong. That’s part of it.
13 BWHITE: Well, you think, fear is a lot of it.
14 SEWARD: Fear of the power.
15 BWHITE: Fear of the power. Fear of the people above who
16   will control you.
17 SEWARD: Fear of the people who above will shock.
18 BWHITE: There’s always somebody above, they, when you get
19   to the top, there, nobody knows everything.
20 PETERSON: There is no top at your level.
21 BWHITE: Oh, I know that. You made it pretty clear to me
22   where I stand in the cult. I even thought...
23 SEWARD: What?
     
    62
     
1 BWHITE: I thought that I was important.
2 DAVIS: Ancient history. Ancient history.
3 BWHITE: Well, you’re asking me why I hate her. I hate her
4   because I thought it was, I was the, how would you
5   have liked to spent your whole damn life doing
6   something and doing it well and doing it to the
7   best of your ability, to find out that you’re the,
8   you’re, you’re the mock? You’re a joke? That you
9   destroyed lives? How would you like it?
10 SEWARD: How would you like to have another life? How come
11   you’re turning it down? It doesn’t make sense to
12   me.
13 BWHITE: I’m not turning it down.
14 PETERSON: Yes, you are.
15 SEWARD: Yeah, you are.
16 PETERSON: Um hmmm.
17 SEWARD: You keep hiding.
18 PETERSON: Um hmmm. Because you have the power.
19 SEWARD: When does your plane leave, DICK?
20 DWHITE: 4:50.
21 SEWARD: Then you need to be there at 3:50, latest.
22 PETERSON: Um hmmm.
23 SEWARD: It takes an hour to get there, 2:50.
     
    63
     
1 PETERSON: Time marches on.
2 SEWARD: It’s noon. And I have an appointment at 1:30.
3 BWHITE: Please. I...all I can do.
4 PETERSON: Is fail.
5 BWHITE: All I can do is...
6 PETERSON: (Interrupts) So far is fail.
7 BWHITE: ...ask for your help.
8 PETERSON: You have my help.
9 SEWARD: And mine.
10 DAVIS: And mine.
11 SEWARD: And DICK’s here.
12 PETERSON: That’s even a stronger statement, with four people
13   here that really care. DICK flew all the way down
14   here from Chicago. It’s an even stronger
15   statement when you don’t come out. It is a slap
16   in the face, to DICK and GEORGE.
17 BWHITE: But I don’t want, I can tell you, I don’t want to
18   hate. I don’t wanna hate.
19 PETERSON: Do you wanna be the nice school teacher lady? The
20   robot teacher and mom. Yeah. And you see, that’s
21   all over with. So, all the I don’t wanna hate,
22   and I don’t wanna hate, and I don’t wanna show
23   any, show any difficult affect with my therapist,
     
    64
1   and I don’t wanna have any out of control
2   behavior, I wanna just be, just have sort of a
3   nice time on this unit...
4 SEWARD: And I don’t wanna hurt GEORGE, I don’t wanna hurt
5   DICK.
6 PETERSON: Yeah. So I’ll to work out a safety plan. Like
7   hell.
8 BWHITE: The only safety plan I can think of is for them to
9   get the hell as far away from me as they possibly
10   can.
11 SEWARD: Get away from what?
12 PETERSON: (UI)
13 BWHITE: Away from the parts that still hate. And still
14   are down there.
15 PETERSON: They can’t even work it out. They can’t even work
16   it out enough to give information about the
17   programming to help DICK and GEORGE, or struggling.
18   They can’t even do that. But they already
19   destroyed their lives before and now they’re
20   trying to recover. They can’t come out to help.
21   And so that’s a double whammy. It’s go ahead,
22   you’re on your own, kid. You’re on your own. We
23   have, and I will compare, we have other moms that
     
    65
     
1   are really giving information to help their kids.
2   Deep information about programming. And you’re
3   not one of them. GEORGE needs to know is, no mom.
4 SEWARD: The part that just came out who misses his (UI).
5 PETERSON: (UI). Cause even when the amnesiaís down and
6   you’re responsible, you still make a cult choice.
7   It’s okay to save you for you did not know, now
8   you all know and you are choosing the cult.
9 BWHITE: I don’t...
10 PETERSON: Yes.
11 BWHITE: ...know who won’t choose the cult.
12 SEWARD: You’re doing it. That’s the favorite.
13 PETERSON: Um hmmm. We are taking the risk in therapy,
14   having the risk of your alters out. You got any
15   extra precautions, do anything extra that would
16   mean that you are in touch with the parts that
17   have been built into to make this hard?
18 BWHITE: You make it sound like I have been doing nothing
19   down here.
20 SEWARD: Down there you haven’t.
21 PETERSON: Down deep in your toes.
22 BWHITE: That’s not what TRISH says. She says we’re really
23   gettinq somewhere.
     
    66
     
1 DAVIS: TRISH wasn’t dealing with those parts yet.
2 PETERSON: That we’re asking for right now.
3 SEWARD: Nice try.
4 PETERSON: Splitting doesn’t work on this tape.
5 SEWARD: And you heard that.
6 PETERSON: Um hmmm. TRISH wants the parts in the toes, too,
7   because then she can organize therapy for you and
8   your abreactive work from the bottom up and that
9   would help GEORGE from the bottom up. And that
10   would help DICK from the bottom up. And when we
11   have that information, that’s what we do, is focus
12   now, we work from the bottom up. We don’t work
13   from the top down any more. The toes, I want to
14   ask the toes if that makes sense.
15 BWHITE: If it will speed things up a lot.
16 PETERSON: Oh, it would speed things up a lot.
17 SEWARD: Are the toes going to hide?
18 DAVIS: You might actually have some life left to live if
19   we could work from the bottom. But you can out-
20   wait us.
21 PETERSON: DICK is already going home with the information
22   that his toes talk. So DICK’s going to be working
23   from the bottom up.
     
    67
     
1 BWHITE: All I know is the memories and what we were told
2   and what GEORGE’s supposed to do...
3 PETERSON: (UI). Sorry. You know, I would like to say that
4   you have an interesting life, but there are times
5   when it gets boring because I hear the same things
6   over and over again. And I would really like to
7   hear things from the bottom up so that I can help
8   TRISH plan therapy and help TRISH and I would call
9   Dr. SACHS for the purpose...
10 BWHITE: (Tape skips)...been told that the information I
11   gave about Father’s Day, and about DICK’s birthday
12   was...
13 DAVIS: From the top.
14 SEWARD: We’re down here now.
15 PETERSON: Um hmmm. We’re asking for something different,
16   you see, GEORGE can deal with memories of atrocity,
17   thanks to the cult, probably for many years. I
18   would guess that DICK knows GEORGE will be in therapy
19   for a long, long, time. Maybe a lifetime.
20 BWHITE: (Crying)
21 PETERSON: We’re talking about how he’s organized inside to
22   dismantle that so he can have a life. So he can
23   work through his automatic programming.
     
    68
     
1 DAVIS: And you’ve known that since you were a kid.
2 PETERSON: And you’ve known that since you came here. And
3   you’ve been hiding that since you came here.
4 BWHITE: I worked very hard and you told me, you told me
5   that it was nothing. It was not useful at all.
6 SEWARD: Irrelevant.
7 BWHITE: You took away my journaling. You told me...
8 SEWARD: Irrelevant.
9 PETERSON: No, very relevant. That was, she made progress.
10   So this is the cult talking.
11 SEWARD: My mistake. Yeah.
12 PETERSON: This is the cult talking.
13 SEWARD: My mistake.
14 PETERSON: Um hmmm.
15   (Tape skips)
16 BWHITE: Programming.
17 PETERSON: Yes. Programming. Program statements about...
18 SEWARD: There we go, there you are.
19 BWHITE: I...you know my program statements about
20   therapists, you know.
21 PETERSON: Oh, yeah.
22 SEWARD: So why go through them again?
     
    69
     
1 PETERSON: Why don’t you Just turn them off or put them away
2   somewhere.
3 BWHITE: (crying)
4 SEWARD: It’s 12:15.
5 PETERSON: We can have sandwiches sent in.
6 BWHITE: Why don’t you just let me out of restraints and
7   send me to the stupid state hospital or wherever
8   you’re gonna end up putting me?
9 PETERSON: Tape.
10 SEWARD: That’s a trash tape.
11 PETERSON: Um hmmm.
12 BWHITE: Trash me, that’s what I need.
13 PETERSON: Okay.
14 DAVIS: I’m the throwaway kid.
15 PETERSON: We’re offering you something very different that
16   the cult never offered. For real never offered.
17   For real offering you something different.
18 BWHITE: But I don’t have....
19 PETERSON: If you really take charge of your life.
20 BWHITE: I could tell you what I did to GEORGE. I can tell
21   you what I did to other kids.
22 PETERSON: Sorry.
23 SEWARD: That was last month...
     
    70
     
1 BWHITE: I can tell you what my....
2 SEWARD: That’s last month’s work.
3 BWHITE: What do you want from me now?
4 SEWARD: To talk to down here.
5 PETERSON: About the programming.
6 SEWARD: The one that hates DICK.
7 DAVIS: hat was around for a long time before DICK.
8 PETERSON: The programmers from deep down. Controllers, from
9   deep down. The leaders from deep down. From
10   childhood. It’s very interesting that I talk to
11   parts in GEORGE’s toes.
12 DWHITE: The ones way down at the bottom of GEORGE have come
13   up and are talking and are working real hard.
14 PETERSON: Um hmmm. They weren’t happy when they met me.
15 DWHITE: They know what freedom is. They know what freedom
16   to work in therapy is.
17 PETERSON: They came out and sat in their chair and told me
18   to go to hell. And I said thank you very much,
19   it’s a pleasure to meet you.
20 DWHITE: And your parts, I’m asking your parts to do the
21   same that GEORGE’s parts are doing. All the way up
22   from the toe, all the way up and out. If GEORGE can
23   do it, you can do it.
     
    71
     
1 BWHITE: (Crying) I know I can do it, I wanna do it.
2 PETERSON: Cause it’s pretty dumb to know how programming, to
3   know how programmed GEORGE is, and to not think you
4   are. And that you’ve done everything, that’s
5   baloney. Doesn’t make any sense.
6 BWHITE: (Screams) Get out! Get out!
7 SEWARD: You can do it.
8 BWHITE: (Screams) Get out! I hate you! I hate you!
9   (Screams)
10 PETERSON: You were in charge. You’re in charge of GEORGE’s
11   programming. Make sure it saves DICK’s (UI).
12   What, so are you in charge of BARBARA’s programming,
13   or are you in charge of DICK’s programming?
14 SEWARD: Your job’s coming undone.
15 PETERSON: Yeah.
16 BWHITE: (Screams) Nooooo!!
17 PETERSON: Yeah, you must have failed, because it was simple
18   for me to access that.
19 BWHITE: Nooooo!
20 PETERSON: Easy. Easy. He doesn’t even know me and I went
21   in and did it.
22 BWHITE: That’s because god-damn BARBARA...(crying)
     
    72
     
1 PETERSON: No, actually I did it because of the information
2   other people had given me. Not from BARBARA.
3 BWHITE: (Crying and screaming)
4 PETERSON: So he’s qonna get well anyway.
5 BWHITE: No! Everybody gets well. That was the...
6 PETERSON: He’s going to get well anyway.
7 BWHITE: Nooooo!
8 PETERSON: DICK’s gonna get well.
9 BWHITE: Noooo! I don’t wanna be left behind!
10 PETERSON: Then you’d better come out.
11 BWHITE: I don’t wanna be left behind!
12 PETERSON: Then you’d better come out.
13 SEWARD: Now.
14 DWHITE: You’re the only one that hasn’t come out.
15 PETERSON: You’re the one behind. Like play catch up?
16 BWHITE: You...
17 PETERSON: You wanna play catch up?
18 BWHITE: ...all the plans that we had, you’ve ruined by
19   keeping me here so long. You figured it out.
20   GEORGE was...
21 PETERSON: GEORGE was? Come on. Stay out here. Can you stay
22   out here?
     
    73
     
1 BWHITE: GEORGE was supposed to go...when he spent a whole
2   year.
3 PETERSON: A whole year what?
4 BWHITE: Giving information to DICK so that he would pass it
5   on....
6 SEWARD: Oh, here we go again.
7 BWHITE: ...to WAYNE so GEORGE would hate BOBBY and so that
8   GEORGE would kill BOBBY. And then the only reason
9   that...
10 PETERSON: How did you pass it on to DICK?
11 BWHITE: I passed it, I told him. I told him over the
12   phone.
13 PETERSON: How? Bad things about BOBBY? When you were in
14   the hospital?
15 BWHITE: Or I passed... I just told him. GEORGE was there,
16   too. So that the fear...
17 PETERSON: Would be there.
18 BWHITE: ...would be there and then...
19 PETERSON: Uh huh.
20 BWHITE: ...one day they...
21 PETERSON: One day they can?
22   (door opens and closes)
     
    74
     
1 PETERSON: One day they can what? Huh? I wonder if DICK
2   remembers the negative statements about BOBBY?
3 BWHITE: I’m sure he does.
4 DWHITE: I remember them. I didn’t believe them, but I
5   remember all of em.
6 BWHITE: One day they came to the door and there were three
7   people.. one was BARBARA ANN and she...we had this
8   pipe downstairs and she held me up against the
9   pipe and, and BOBBY came in and she, she raped
10   GEORGE.
11 PETERSON: BOBBY came in and raped GEORGE?
12 DWHITE: Some of it looked like BOBBY came in and raped
13   GEORGE?
14 PETERSON: Yeah. We’ve all been through all the use of masks
15   and all that with BOBBY already.
16 BWHITE: See you said that I’m still...I don’t have any
17   contact, I can’t find out, there’s no...
18 PETERSON: I know. I’ve done it.
19 BWHITE: And there’s been lots of people that have been
20   sent in to get information from me.
21 PETERSON: Yeah. What happens with that?
22 BWHITE: He will find out who they are and get rid of ëem.
23 PETERSON: Darn, huh?
     
    75
     
1 BWHITE: But the thing is...
2 PETERSON: We made DICK stand up against the corner today,
3   against the wall, so he’d be away from you, didn’t
4   I?
5 BWHITE: What do you think?
6 PETERSON: Yes.
7 BWHITE: How do you think that makes me feel?
8 PETERSON: Like a cult member.
9 BWHITE: I thought that...I thought those parts were gone.
10 PETERSON: Well, that’s pretty dumb. I don’t think they’re
11   gone.
12   (Tape skips)
13 BWHITE: (UI)
14 PETERSON: I wanna talk to them. I wanna talk to them.
15 BWHITE: We can’t journal, we can’t make phone calls, we
16   can’t.. .we can’t send letters, even in art we
17   can’t visit. You, you, all the ways of
18   communicating, all the ways of doing our job,
19   you’ve taken away from us.
20 PETERSON: Um hmmm.
21 BWHITE: And,...
22 SEWARD: Can you apply for a new job?
23 PETERSON: You interested?
     
    76
     
1 BWHITE: I want my (UI).
2 PETERSON: No, you don’t. No you don’t. You want to
3   communicate information to make sure that you
4   figure out a way to undo their damage.
5 BWHITE: Well, then don’t (UI).
6 PETERSON: Don’t you? Don’t you? I wanna talk to the parts
7   that want to communicate for that reason.
8 SEWARD: Saboteurs.
9 PETERSON: Yeah. The saboteurs that really want, or upset
10   that I find out who the plants are and get them
11   off the unit. That I haven’t given you roommates,
12   for example.
13 BWHITE: But you will, uh, my mother, when she, when they
14   reprogrammed me last, they scrambled it all up....
15 PETERSON: Somebody knows.
16 SEWARD; Is somebody down here? They keep talking.
17 DAVIS: Somehow I don’t think that part was candid.
18 PETERSON: No. They have to be able to act, less the
19   leader...
20   (End of tape)
     
    77
     

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