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USA v. Peterson, et al. - Transcripts of Tapes of Therapy Sessions

Tape #308, Side B - Date: 4/3/1992

Certain patient names in this text have been changed by request.

ALICE: Alice Brown

SYLVIA DAVIS: Sylvia Davis

(UI) Unintelligible

1   Beginning of Tape
2 SYLVIA DAVIS: I wouldn’t want you or anybody else in the body to end up, you know, with
3   scrapes on your on your hand or hurt yourself by hitting things; so if you’re
4   going to hit something, I would rather that you hit something that didn’t hurt
5   you, you know, like uh uh like uh pillow or like the stuffing on a chair or
6   something like that, just cause I don’t want you to get hurt. So -- and they
7   kick? They kicked the wall, too? Kicking is fun, isn’t it? Looks like fun
8   didn’t it?
9 ALICE: They kicked a big ol’ hole in the wall.
11 ALICE: That’s where it happened.
12 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh. Well, that wall must look pretty tempting, huh? Does it?
13 ALICE: Uh-huh.
14 SYLVIA DAVIS: Yeah. Especially the one that’s already been busted on a little bit.
15 ALICE: Both of em have.
2 ALICE: Big ol’ holes.
3 SYLVIA DAVIS: Bet that looks like it would be satisfiying, doesn’t it? It’s not really a good
4   habit, though, to be breaking up walls and things (clear throat) cause they’re
5   expensive to fix. But, a person could, you know, pound on the s... the seat
6   of a chair or something.
7 ALICE: But how do you have a safe temper tantrum?
8 SYLVIA DAVIS: How do you have a what?
9 ALICE: A safe temper tantrum and not get in trouble?
10 SYLVIA DAVIS: Well, some of the fun of a temper tantrum, as Dr. Seward is talking about it,
11   is that you let yourself get so mad that you don’t care if you get into some
12   trouble because you know that this is a safe place. And you wouldn’t be
13   getting into trouble that would get you really hurt, you know? Like you
14   know none of the staff is going to hit you, don’t you? You don’t know that?
15   Bethany, none of the staff here is going to hit you. That’s not going to
16   happen.
17 ALICE: But they hold their arms when they take them to the quiet room.
18 SYLVIA DAVIS: They hold their arms so that they won’t get hit. It’s not nice to hit people.
19 ALICE: But I don’t want to go to the quiet room.
20 SYLVIA DAVIS: Well, I think that you probably are invited to go to the quiet room first. It’s
21   probably like, "All right, Young Lady, you need to go to the quiet room
1   now." And then you say, "Okay." as loud as you can.
2 ALICE: (Laugh)
3 SYLVIA DAVIS: "Okay." And then you just march along.
4 ALICE: But I’m scared of the quiet room.
5 SYLVIA DAVIS: What’s scary about the quiet room?
6 ALICE: Cause in the cult, they had them and they put you in...
8 ALICE: And locked you up like that.
9 SYLVIA DAVIS: And there was nobody there, right? There was nobody there. Here, have
10   you noticed how it is with the quiet room? That there’s somebody right
11   outside the door?
12 ALICE: But I still wouldn’t want to go.
13 SYLVIA DAVIS: You wouldn’t want to go by yourself, huh? Would you like to go in with me?
14   I mean, I’m willing to go in the quiet room with you so that you could feel
15   safe while you do that.
16 ALICE: Uh, uh.
17 SYLVIA DAVIS: Huh. Have you ever looked in that quiet room? What’s in there?
18 ALICE: Nothing.
20 ALICE: Nothing.
21 SYLVIA DAVIS: Nothing. Does it look like the quiet room in the cult? It does? Ummm.
1   How long, tell me about it in the cult. Tell me about sometime when you
2   were in the quiet room in the cult. I don’t think they called it that, though.
3 ALICE: It’s because I wouldn’t do stuff.
4 SYLVIA DAVIS: When you wouldn’t do stuff, they put you in a room. Did they have a name
5   for the room?
6 ALICE: I don’t know.
7 SYLVIA DAVIS: Was it like a closet or a room?
8 ALICE: A room and locked the door.
9 SYLVIA DAVIS: And locked the door. What kind of stuff was it?
10 ALICE: What do you mean?
11 SYLVIA DAVIS: That you wouldn’t, didn’t want to do.
12 ALICE: Didn’t want to...I was mad and I was screaming and they put me in there
13   cause nobody was supposed to talk.
14 SYLVIA DAVIS: What were you so mad at?
I 5 ALICE: What they were doing.
16 SYLVIA DAVIS: Can you tell me what they were doing:?
17 ALICE: Uh...
18 SYLVIA DAVIS: See, I, I know I’m not a member of the cult or anything, but I’ve worked
19   with people who’ve hated being in the cult and been very angry at the cult.
20   So I know some of the stories. I know some of the stuff that they do. What
21   would happen if you would tell me what it was that you saw that you were
1   so angry at?
2 ALICE: Ummmm...
3 SYLVIA DAVIS: Well, think about it. What, what might happen?
4 ALICE: They might find me.
5 SYLVIA DAVIS: They might find you? (Sigh) Do you think I would tell them what you
6   talked? How do you think they might find out?
7 ALICE: The tape.
8 SYLVIA DAVIS: The tape? I have news for you about this tape. This tape goes into a -in
9   fact, I’m going to stop the tape and show you -stop the tape and I’ll show
10   you what it says. It says stop.
11   (Tape stops.)
12 SYLVIA DAVIS: Do you understand that? And that name was made up by Alice. There isn’t
13   really a Jennifer Smith. She just made up the name so that we could have
14   the tape, and she could feel safe, too. The thing about the cult is they were a
15   very -- they would just punish people any way all the time, wouldn’t they?
16   Yeah. So, I don’t know if you’ve listened in sometime when I’ve talked to
17   Alice and the others about trying to work with your family so that your
18   family can be safe to go to, and so that nobody in your family would belong
19   to the cult, and so you could have a regular kind of life. But to do that, the
20   different family members have to tell what they can so that we know how to
21   make you safe. Keep you safe.
1 ALICE: Dr. Peterson said that I didn’t have to go to the quiet room.
2 SYLVIA DAVIS: Said you didn’t have to go to the quiet room? Is that on the chart?
3 ALICE: I don’t know.
5 ALICE: I think so.
6 SYLVIA DAVIS: Maybe it should be on the chart before you have your temper tantrum, huh?
7   (laugh)
8 ALICE: Susan said it was on the chart.
9 SYLVIA DAVIS: Susan is your staff person there, right? That you don’t have to go to the quiet
10   room. I misunderstood you. I thought you liked the idea of going to the
11   quiet room first. Now, I understand you wouldn’t want to go there.
12 ALICE: That’s why I don’t want to have a tantrum.
13 SYLVIA DAVIS: Hum. But if it’s on your chart that you’re not to go to the quiet room, then
14   they would have to think of something else for you. Right?
15 ALICE: I’m embarrassed to scream.
16 SYLVIA DAVIS: Embarrassed to scream? My goodness, why?
17 ALICE: I don’t know.
18 SYLVIA DAVIS: I bet when people screamed in the cult, they got made fun of, didn’t they?
19   Like they were weak and like they were stupid.
20 ALICE: (Inaudible
21 SYLVIA DAVIS: We don’t think that here. When people are really scared and really mad, it’s
1   okay to scream.
2 ALICE: (Pause) Do I have to scream if I have a trantrum?
3 SYLVIA DAVIS: You have to get loud enough that everybody hears.
4 ALICE: What if you don’t?
5 SYLVIA DAVIS: Well, you just have to really try it.
6 ALICE: Dr. Seward will be mad if I don’t do a temper tantrum, won’t he?
7 SYLVIA DAVIS: No. I don’t think he’ll be mad. I think he’ll be sad because I think that he
8   thinks that it would be nice for you to be able to be a kid who can have
9   angry feelings without having to lock them up.
10 ALICE Couldn’t I be angry some other way?
11 SYLVIA DAVIS: Some other way?
12 ALICE: Uh-huh. Like punching my bed?
13 SYLVIA DAVIS: If, so long as you make noise with it. yeah.
14 ALICE: I did.
15 SYLVIA DAVIS: Yeah? Did you punch your bed and make noise?
16 ALICE: Uh, huh.
17 SYLVIA DAVIS: Did you really? What were you mad about?
18 ALICE: I was mad after group because nobody was listening in group.
20 ALICE: And we had to come out of here because everybody was disrespectful for
21   everybody else. I went in my room and punched my bed real hard and
1   started jumping on it.
3 ALICE: And the staff told me to stop, and I said, "No, Um not going to stop."
4 SYLVIA DAVIS: Did you really? Good for you. (laugh) I’m being naughty, except, um, I think that’s
5   good for you to get new, for you, in particular, to get to do that.
6 ALICE: And I finally stopped and went to goals cause I had to do my goal. I was bad. I
7   didn’t do my goal. I didn’t talk to any staff people.
8 SYLVIA DAVIS: How come?
9 ALICE: I don’t know. I didn’t like the staff last night.
10 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh. Well, I don’t think that’s so bad.
11 ALICE: So I got a red star.
12 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh.
13 ALICE: But some people didn’t even get stars cause they were in time-out during
14   goals group.
15 SYLVIA DAVIS: (laugh) I don’t think they’ll think that’s so bad of you not to talk to staff if
16   you don’t like them. But maybe it would’ve been okay to say, "I don’t want
17   to talk to you. I don’t know you. I don’t trust you. I don’t like you."
18 ALICE: But they would be mad at me then.
19 SYLVIA DAVIS: Well, that’s their problem, isn’t it? Even if they get mad at you, they’re not
20   allowed to hit you or be mean to you.
21 ALICE. I like to color real hard.
1 SYLVIA DAVIS: Well, have a piece of paper, and let’s color real hard. Rrrrr!
2 ALICE: Real hard?
3 SYLVIA DAVIS: Real hard. Let’s color angry hard. Rrrrr! Yeah. Angry hard. Yes. Yes.
4   Rrrrrah! Do you know what? Look. You’re not supposed to tear off the
5   paper from crayons, are you?
6 ALICE: Yeah. Pull it out.
7 SYLVIA DAVIS: Pull it out and just rip it off Rip it off. Rip it.
8 ALICE: When I do, when I’m with Pat in art therapy.
10 ALICE: ...we build up the blocks really high and knock them over.
11 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh. That’s fun, too, RRR’ Rip.
12 ALICE: (Laughs)
13 SYLVIA DAVIS: That’s kinda of fun, too, isn’t it? Snap. It goes snap.
14 ALICE: Urrrrr
16 ALICE: Urrrrah
17 SYLVIA DAVIS: Urrrrah
18 ALICE: Urrrrrah
19 SYLVIA DAVIS: Urrrrrah
20 ALICE: Urrrrrrah
21 SYLVIA DAVIS: Urrrrrrah (laugh)
1 ALICE: (laugh)
2 SYLVIA DAVIS: (screech)
3 ALICE: (laugh) Watch me. Watch. l’m going to break this one, too.
4 SYLVIA DAVIS: Good, strong, line, isn’t it? Rrrrah.
5 ALICE: Is this a temper tantrum
7 ALICE: Is this a temper tantrum?
8 SYLVIA DAVIS: No. But it feels like you’re puttin some feelings out into the ah-- and giving
9   yourself some permission to do things a different way.
10 ALICE: (Sigh, Sigh)
11 SYLVIA DAVIS: It’s really hard work, huh?
12 ALICE: Urrrah. (Sigh) Gosh. Watch me. This is funny. Watch this. Watch what I
13   do.
15 ALICE: Okay, I’m going to make a mess. (laugh) Oops. I get it all over my
16   fingernails. I’m gonna make a big mess cause I like to make messes and then
17   I don’t have to clean them up. Let’s see. Stupid crayon. See what a mess I
18   made?
19 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh. Oh, snap it went!
20 ALICE: Once I got so mad, I smashed a marker because of that. But I want to
21   smash those markers. They’re not my markers.
1 SYLVIA DAVIS: So, not all the feelings always got locked up, huh?
2 ALICE: Uh-uh.
3 SYLVIA DAVIS: Just the feelings that had to do with stuff that happened, the really bad stuff.
4   I’m wondering if you had your very own notebook, if you could write down
5   with no feelings at all one of the bad things that happened?
6 ALICE: I don’t know.
7 SYLVIA DAVIS: You don’t know?
8 ALICE: Maybe.
10 ALICE: Go dump this all in the trash can. Will the white shows up now? Nope.
11 SYLVIA DAVIS: That shows up a little bit. It’s very interesting.
12 ALICE: (laugh)
13 SYLVIA DAVIS: Yeah. I’m wondering if you could write a story about what happened?
14 ALICE: Now?
15 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh. What do you think?
16 ALICE: I don’t think so.
17 SYLVIA DAVIS: You don’t think so?
18 ALICE: Uh-uh.
19 SYLVIA DAVIS: You don’t think so. That’s a pretty good angry picture.
20 ALICE: Uh-huh I’m going to break this one. Just color. Sometimes the kids at
21   school get really, really mad at the teacher and they go snap with their
1   pencils, and I like to laugh when they do it.
2 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh. You like it when other people get angry, huh?
3 ALICE: Uh-huh.
5 ALICE: What time is it?
6 SYLVIA DAVIS: We’re before 7:00. I met with you earlier tonight.
7 ALICE: Oops.
9 ALICE: I didn’t mean to.
10 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh. Another way to have a temper tantrum would be to have one in
11   therapy session.
12 ALICE: Oh! How?
13 SYLVIA DAVIS: Well, I could bring some things in for you to hit with -- (inaudible) --
14 ALICE: Like the Kooshes, like y’all did that one day?
15 SYLVIA DAVIS: Did you watch that?
16 ALICE: Can we?
17 SYLVIA DAVIS: We could do that, too
18 ALICE: Could we do that now?
19 SYLVIA DAVIS: Well, I think we need a story to go with it. Because I think it would be a
20   good idea if we got into that closet and got out some of the feelings that
21   were stored away because I don’t think it’s very good for the neck to have to
1   store all those feelings’s your angry picture.
2 ALICE: Can I keep it, and hang it up?
3 SYLVIA DAVIS: And hang it up? Yes. That’s a good idea. Oops.
4 ALICE: And then I can go back and color in it when I’m angry.
5 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh. So I’m wondering if you could think of, or maybe Claudia could
6   help you with it or maybe even there’s one called Kitty. Do you know her?
7   You do? Maybe even the three of you. together, might like to have a
8   tantrum about something that you saw. What do you think?
9 ALICE: Can we, can we, um, can we throw them and say it?
10 SYLVIA DAVIS: Throw them. You can throw them and holler and do all these
11   things, but we need to have the story first.
12 ALICE: Can I say the story while I’m throwing?
13 SYLVIA DAVIS: No. I need to have the story first cause I don’t like getting surprises very
14   much about that. Okay?
15 ALICE: Okay.
16 SYLVIA DAVIS: So if have your very own story --
17 ALICE: Do you want to write it?
18 SYLVIA DAVIS: Would you like me to write it?
19 ALICE: Yeah.
20 SYLVIA DAVIS: Okay. Do you, if you will tell me, just tell the words, I will write it down.
21   And, um, is this a story that some of the other folks were present for?
1 ALICE: No.
2 SYLVIA DAVIS: No? Just you, huh?
3 ALICE: Mm, hm.
4 SYLVIA DAVIS: Okay. Where does this story happen?
5 ALICE: At the meeting.
6 SYLVIA DAVIS: Once upon a time?
7 ALICE: Once upon time, there was a girl named Bethany. And that...
8 SYLVIA DAVIS: A little slower. There was a girl.
9 ALICE: . . . named Bethany. And once, at a cult meeting this man was getting hurt by
10   someone else in the meeting. And Bethany got very angry and said...
11 SYLVIA DAVIS: A little slower. Someone else in the meeting. What was happening to the
12   man?
13 ALICE: They were hitting him.
14 SYLVIA DAVIS: They were hitting him. Did you know the name of the man who was getting
15   hit?
16 ALICE: No.
17 SYLVIA DAVIS: He was just a man, huh?
18 ALICE: Yes.
19 SYLVIA DAVIS: They were hitting. Where were they hitting him?
20 ALICE: On the head.
21 SYLVIA DAVIS: On the head?
1 ALICE: Yeah.
2 SYLVIA DAVIS: With what?
3 ALICE: A mallet.
4 SYLVIA DAVIS: A mallet?
5 ALICE: Yes.
6 SYLVIA DAVIS: Oh. How big a mallet was it?
7 ALICE: About that big around.
9 ALICE: It was a big mallet. And (sniff) the little girl Bethany, got really angry.
10 SYLVIA DAVIS: Got royally angry?
11 ALICE: Then she said, . . .
12 SYLVIA DAVIS: Got royally angry. And then what?
13 ALICE: ...and she said, "Stop hitting that man. He didn’t do anything to you. "
14 SYLVIA DAVIS: What was the man doing?
15 ALICE: He was screaming cause he was hurt.
16 SYLVIA DAVIS: Was he trying to run?
17 ALICE: Yes.
18 SYLVIA DAVIS: How come he couldn’t run?
19 ALICE: Cause they were holding him. The end.
20 SYLVIA DAVIS: Usually, in a good story, like, if it’s a princess, they’ll say, um, what she was
21   wearing or something. Or if it was a monster story, they’ll sort of describe
l   what the monster looked like.
2 ALICE: But I don’t remember what he looked like.
3 SYLVIA DAVIS: What? What’s happening?
4 ALICE: Nothing. I hiccupped.
6 ALICE: And the little girl...
7 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh. And the little girl...
8 ALICE: Did you get "stop hitting that man?" And then...
9 SYLVIA DAVIS: "Stop hitting that man. He didn’t do anything to you." Uh-huh.
10 ALICE: And the little girl got took away because she was making too much noise.
11 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh.
12 ALICE: And they put her in the big room.
13 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh.
14 ALICE: And she cried and cried and cried (pause) and finally they let her out, and
15   she went home.
16 SYLVIA DAVIS: Who took her home?
17 ALICE: I don’t know.
18 SYLVIA DAVIS: You don’t know who took her home? (sigh) Did they always put her in a
19   room if she made too much noise? I think she would do it, make a lot of
20   noise all the time so that they would put her in a room so that she wouldn’t
21   have to see scary stuff
1 ALICE: (Inaudible.)
2 SYLVIA DAVIS: Wasn’t it better in the room than seeing the scary stuff? Can I guess
3   something here? Is this story partly true and partly made up? I thought
4   maybe it was.
5 ALICE: Why?
6 SYLVIA DAVIS: I just kind of partly thought that’s how it was. Also, I told you I work with
7   people that have been in the cult and are trying to get away from it. And
S   they, mostly, don’t say that it’s that easy to get away from something nasty.
9   They mostly tell a different story about what happens when something nasty
10   is happening. This is what, this is what you wished would happen when the
11   little girl got royally angry and said, "Stop hitting that man." Now, this is the
12   part that you wished would have happened and (inaudible). And this was a
13   good wish. You wished that you had been very brave to be able to say that,
14   huh? And you wished that you would have been able to get away, and that’s
15   a good wish. And that shows a very kind heart and a heart that wants to be
16   brave and that doesn’t like seeing when people are being hurt. So this part is
17   the true part. Is that right? The true part.
18 ALICE: Is that bad to make it up?
19 SYLVIA DAVIS: No. I’m glad because this is a good story. I just had to understand. It’s
20   important to tell the truth in therapy. Okay? And this, the truth in here is
21   that this is what you wished would have happened. This is the wish part.
1   No. You’re doing just fine You’re not bad at all. You’re a very good and
2   very smart girl with a very good heart. But aren’t you kind of glad that I
3   could tell the difference between the true and the wish? Shake it a little
4   harder, your head, up and down. Yeah. Because I can help you better, can’t
5   I, if I can help you be reminded of whats the true and what’s the wish?
6   Because it’s evening and you’ve worked very hard this session, I am
7   wondering if we could finish this story tomorrow with the other true part.
8   Even though it might be such a nasty story, there might be some feelings
9   leak out about it. You think that’s possible? No. Do you think you could
10   be brave enough to tell me the rest of the true story that really happened,
11   tomorrow? That would be very brave.
12 ALICE: I can try.
13 SYLVIA DAVIS: You can try, and I will help you. And I have ways of helping you when it
14   gets hard. Okay? Yeah. Put the date on here. And we’ll see about a new
I 5   booklet for you when you go back to the room because you deserve your
16   very own. And, now, I’m wondering if you would like to change and do
17   something else for a little bit? I’m wondering. Mandy had asked to come
18   out and play.
19 ALICE: Okay.
20 SYLVIA DAVIS: And I’m wondering if you’d like to watch or if you’d participate a little bit
21   with Mandy? Do you know Mandy? Not really? Would you like to meet
1   her? You’re not sure? Well, IĆ­ll tell you what. I promised Mandy she could
2   come back out tonight, at the end of this session, and play a bit with
3   me. She’s a little bit younger than you are, I think. So you could watch for a
4   bit if you’d like and if you Iike our game, and then tomorrow, after we
5   work on this story, if you want to do that kind of fun, then we can do that
6   with you. Okay?
7 ALICE: Did Kitty ever tell you how old she was?
8 SYLVIA DAVIS: Did who tell me?
9 ALICE: Kitty.
10 SYLVIA DAVIS: Um Kitty is, um, I think Kitty is 11.
11 ALICE: Okay.
12 SYLVIA DAVIS: And you’re just a little younger. aren’t you? Like, 10? Am I right? Hum? A
13   little bit younger than that? Okay. You can keep it a secret for a while if
14   you like. It’s all right. Are you looking for somebody to be your very age?
15   No? Well, you’ve done a very good job tonight. Do you want to put this on
16   the wall or have it in your journal?
17 ALICE: Journal.
18 SYLVIA DAVIS: Yeah? Okay. We’ll let them vacuum this up. I don’t care. (laugh)
19 ALICE: They never clean this room.
20 SYLVIA DAVIS: Not much, they don’t. No
21 ALICE: Cause the trash can smells.
1 SYLVIA DAVIS: Oh, gross. (laugh) It looks like it would smell, all right. I’m going to leave
2   these white pieces of paper in here, so we have them.
3 ALICE: In my journal?
4 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh. Uh, in Bethany’s journal. Yeah Okay?
5 ALICE: Can I see? Can I draw on them?
6 SYLVIA DAVIS Uh. One. two, three, four, five. If you have time to draw on some of them,
7   you can. Save a few for us. though. Okay? Save about three for us. Okay?
8   Okay. Good. Okay. Good job, Bethany. You get a good star for the day I
9   say, I say, I say. What, did you cut your finger?
10 ALICE No. I thought I wrote on it.
11 SYLVIA DAVIS: Oh, okay.
12 ALICE: But I didn’t.
13 SYLVIA DAVIS: So, I guess I’ll say good-bye for now. Do you know your way to the ice
14   cream parlor? Okay. Antyhing else you want to say? All right. We’ll think
15   some more about anger tomorrow and about the story. Okay. Will you
16   head off to the ice cream parlor? And I say, Mandy? Mandy? Hi. That’s
17   Alice’s pen. Yeah. You ready to play a little bit? Yeah. What do you
18   know? Anything? Well, tell me how you’re getting along.
19 ALICE: Good.
20 SYLVIA DAVIS: Good? Yeah? Is there any, anything that’s news.
21 ALICE Uh-uh.
1 SYLVIA DAVIS: Don’t know any? Somebody told me that Carol had hurt her knee or
2   something playing basketball or something Did you know that, too? Is she
3   doing better?
4 ALICE: Uh-huh.
5 SYLVIA DAVIS: Were you worried about her, too?
6 ALICE: Uh-huh.
8 ALICE: Uh-huh.
9 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh A little bit. You’re not talking much tonight. There’s your friend
10   Gerber back there.
11 ALICE: Will you play with me?
12 SYLVIA DAVIS: Yes. I told you that we would come and have some play this time. Do you
13   know that you could borrow in Alice’s book sometime and write me a note
14   or something?
15 ALICE: Uh-huh.
16 SYLVIA DAVIS: You can. You could do that. You could wr[i]te me a note then I would
17   know when you especially wanted to come and have a turn or something.
18 ALICE: Are there toys in there?
19 SYLVIA DAVIS: There’s toys over there, but I brought my koosh balls. I thought they might
20   be fun.
21 ALICE Can we see what’s in there?
1 SYLVIA DAVIS: In the, in the blocks and stuff?
2 ALICE: No, in the cabinet.
3 SYLVIA DAVIS: In the cabinet?
4 ALICE: Uh-Huh.
5 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh, I don’t have a key to that, Sweetheart.
6 ALICE: It’s open.
7 SYLVIA DAVIS: Well I, I thought maybe we might play with some of the stuff in here first.
8   So, let me see.
9 ALICE: Can I keep my (inaudible)..?
10 SYLVIA DAVIS: I don’t know today. Um, you, you’re going to have to, will I do
11   this? Tap it. Can you see my thumbs? Okay, there’s a, a kind of a toy in
12   that one, and there’s a kind of toy in that one. Which one should I pull out?
13 ALICE: Mmm, that one.
15 ALICE: That one.
16 SYLVIA DAVIS: That one? Okay. Are you ready? This is a very different ball. Wait ’til you
17   see what this one does.
18 ALICE: Is it...if this one starts falling apartment it makes..
19 SYLVIA DAVIS: (whisper) No, it doesn’t (inaudible), right? Right?
20 ALICE: A smush ball!
21 SYLVIA DAVIS: A smush ball! You’ve seen them before, huh?
1 ALICE: Yeah. Can I throw it against the wall?
2 SYLVIA DA\’IS: Yes. Right there. Hard as you can.
3   (Sound of ball hitting wall)
4 SYLVIA DAVIS: Woo! That makes a good sound, doesn’t it?
5 ALICE: This is for music.
6 SYLVIA DAVIS: Oh, okay.
7 ALICE: Urrrrrah (sound of ball hitting wall)
8 SYLVIA DAVIS: Woo! That makes a good satisfying sound. Ruupp!
9   (Sound of ball hitting wall)
10 SYLVIA DAVIS: Woo! That’s good! (Both laugh) I’ll just be your backup back here.
11 ALICE: urrrrah! (Sound of ball hitting wall)
12 SYLVIA DAVIS: Rah! Whoops! It got away from me. (Both laugh) Ready? Ruupp.
13 ALICE: Urrrrah! (Sound of ball hitting wall)
14 SYLVIA DAVIS: Woo! Good! Rruupp!
15 ALICE: Rruupp.
16 SYLVIA DAVIS: Rruupp! (laugh) Rruupp! Uh-huh. Whoops! Sorry! I threw it a little bit
17   high.
18 ALICE: You wanted to hit the wall.
19 SYLVIA DAVIS: No, no! I really didn’t.
20 ALICE: (Laugh)
21 SYLVIA DAVIS: I guess if I throw underhand you can catch better, huh? Me, too. Well,
    Page 24 is missing.
1 ALICE: Can I try a Koosh ball?
2 SYLVIA DAVIS: Would you like to throw a Koosh ball?
3 ALICE: (Inaudible)
4 SYLVIA DAVIS: Yeah. All right.
5 ALICE: Ooh. It looks like, oh, what’s his name? Ziggy.
6 SYLVIA DAVIS: Like Ziggy? Yes.
7 ALICE: (Sound of ball hitting wall) Oh.
8 SYLVIA DAVIS: That’s a pretty good sound. It doesn’t throw false. It goes far. (Sound of
9   ball hitting wall) Boom! Keep your eye on where you’re throwing it, and
10   then you can get it. (Sound of ball hitting wall) Good! You’re doing it like
11   you play tennis, huh?
12 ALICE: No. It’s softball. You’ll like this, and you . .
13 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh?
14 ALICE: (Sound of ball hitting wall) Oh, I missed.
15 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh.
16 ALICE: Hang on.
17 SYLVIA DAVIS: That’s a good tip.
18 ALICE: You go like this, and then you go...(sound of ball hitting wall)...boom.
19 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh. That’s a little, not a very good wall to throw it at because you can’t,
20   uh get around the table and chairs. (Both laugh) (Sound of ball hitting
21   wall) All right.
1 ALICE: Here. I’ve got an idea.
2 SYLVIA DAVIS: What? Whoopsy. I know! Let’s say naughty words.
3 ALICE: Like what?
4 SYLVIA DAVIS: Naughty words like you might say if you got mad, like, booger
5 ALICE: (Laugh) Stupid.
6 SYLVIA DAVIS: And snot-head.
7 ALICE: (Laugh) Butt-hole.
8 SYLVIA DAVIS: Oh, oh, oh...and Dog breath.
9 ALICE: Pissed off.
10 SYLVIA DAVIS: Pissed off. Pissssst off.
11 ALICE: I don’t know.
12 SYLVIA DAVIS: Dirtbag.
13 ALICE: Cheese for brains.
14 SYLVIA DAVIS: Cheese for brains? Very good one.
15 ALICE: Hah. You forgot.
16 SYLVIA DA\IS: What?
17 ALICE: . You forgot to say something.
18 SYLVIA DAVIS: Oh. Ah. Snooty.
19 ALICE: Punk.
20 SYLVIA DAVIS: Dumb-dumb.
21 ALICE: Ugly. (laugh)
1 SYLVIA DAVIS: Pooper. Oh, I made you speechless. That’s the end of that one. I have one
2   more thing because you got kind of warm playing that. See, after you shut
3   your eyes. I’m going to cool you off a little bit.
4 ALICE: What is it? Oh.
5 SYLVIA DAVIS: Yes. Yes. That’s, that’s how they do in the greeting cards, huh?
6 ALICE: Does it open the other way?
7 SYLVIA DAVIS: I don’t think so. No. Just the one way. Cooled off a little? That’s kind of a
8   nice toy to have, sometime.
9 ALICE: Uh-huh. They won’t let you have them here.
10 SYLVIA DAVIS: That’s right. I use that fan with a story that I do sometimes.
11 ALICE: What does it say?
12 SYLVIA DAVIS: The story? Let me see if I can find that story and bring it, and one of these
13   times when we have..
14 ALICE: (Inaudible)
15 SYLVIA DAVIS: (Laugh)
16 ALICE: They go like this, you go...
17 SYLVIA DAVIS: Yeah How, I’ve seen a tissue do it with kind of a snap (inaudible);
18 ALICE: It may be hard to do with that. Yeah, like that. That’s it. Can I try[?]
19 SYLVIA DAVIS: Yeah. Sure.
20 ALICE: (Inaudible)
21 SYLVIA DAVIS: Yes. (Laugh)
1 ALICE: I’ve seen people go...
2 SYLVIA DAVIS: Uh-huh. I will find that story, and sometime when we had, um, a session
3   where people have had to be very brave...
4 ALICE: Uh-huh.
5 SYLVIA DAVIS: And work on hard feelings, then we’ll finish it up with that kind of story.
6   And everybody can listen up. Is that still going? Oh, my goodness! It’s
7   been going all this time, you can make it go stop.
8   End of Tape.

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